Perhaps he is suggesting that even if it would sacrifice cricket team's quality, it is worth to promote that sort of affirmative program on the basis of this national program (which he alluded to but should expand so that it could be understood) since cricket is not important when compared to what he feels that program could achieve for the country (?).
-
Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.
You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!
If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
The case of the missing black Test cricketer
- Thread starter Marius
- Start date
Marius
International Debutant
Which I'm not against.
But this is about the 4th time I'm saying this, apart from Tsolekile, there is not one African cricketer in South Africa who won't be hopelessly out of his depth if he is picked right now.
Themba Bavuma may be ready in a season or two, Eddie Leie, Gqamane, and Pumelela Matshikwe, could all probably be close to Test selection in a year or two, but nobody is there now.
Affirmative action is not about putting someone in a position because they are black. It is giving previously disadvantaged people who have the skills and potential to succeed the opportunity to do so. Sticking an African into the Test side will not result in this.
I don't know enough ins and outs of South Africa to have a really educated opinion, but one thing I do have to say is that the whole thing about most of the England cricket team coming from private schools is a little but of bunk.
Cook, Prior, Root went to private schools, via scholarships.
Carberry, Stokes, Anderson, Bresnan, Panesar, all went to comprehensives
Bell, Tremlett and Finn went to independents which are non-fee paying but slightly different to comps
Broad and Bairstow sort of unqiue cases
Ballance, KP, Trott obviously all educated abroad.
I'd say the team are +/10% largely representative of the general population when you remove the outliers of Bairstow/Broad.
Cook, Prior, Root went to private schools, via scholarships.
Carberry, Stokes, Anderson, Bresnan, Panesar, all went to comprehensives
Bell, Tremlett and Finn went to independents which are non-fee paying but slightly different to comps
Broad and Bairstow sort of unqiue cases
Ballance, KP, Trott obviously all educated abroad.
I'd say the team are +/10% largely representative of the general population when you remove the outliers of Bairstow/Broad.
Last edited:
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
Ballance went to Harrow. It's how he ended up in England in the first place.
Yeah good catch, I just assumed he moved later.
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
Harrow gives out "outstanding talent" scholarships to overseas students every year and he was chosen for one through his cricket. He'd not be playing for England if that didn't happen as he wasn't actually eligible for a British passport at all before studying there and then qualifying via residency.
EDIT: Apparently I'm wrong; he did have a British passport before then anyway.
Last edited:
I probably have to start by saying even though I'm Indian, I've never experienced a large amount of discrimination, also came from a middle class background so never wanted for anything important so the angle I come from is not representative of the majority of SA.
Cricket is the 3rd sport in SA, it used to be a lot closer to Rugby but it's become an insurmountable gap now. The money pouring into Rugby vs. Cricket's pittance should be depressing for any fan. I seriously think that Cricket's in pretty bad shape at the ground level and it's only a matter of time before this creeps it's way up. Franchise cricket is a basket case money wise, wholly dependant on international revenue and CSA assistance, even T20 attendances are fairly poor compared to List A games a decade ago.
It's all well and good to say that a cricketing culture needs to be developed from the ground up and the CSA aren't doing enough or there's a conspiracy. It's not my personal point of view but there are thousands of people who think that quotas should be enacted even up to national level, let's compromise the performance to give the country a more representative squad. I disagree wholeheartedly with that, I want to see my team win, every game, all the time. I want the best cricketers in the country in there, the best coaches.
It makes no difference to me if the teams all white, all black, all coloured or a hodgepodge but that doesn't mean I don't understand the merits of the other viewpoint. However, say we do put a few of the African players in, jettison Morkel for Lonwabo, Faf for Thami maybe even slide Themba in for Alviro and Phangiso in for the other Pieterson and continue to run along those lines. I wonder if all those thousands will part with their hard earned cash to replace the people who'll simply not go any longer because of an uncompetitive side.
Grand ideas about uniting the nation are fine, we can talk all day about how nice it would be to address socio-economic issues but I think in it's current state SA simply cannot afford a non-competitive team, it'll effectively mark the start of a slow death of the sport in the country. It'd be reminiscent of the West Indian slide, a slow drawn out but inevitable decline into perpetual mediocrity. I don't think anyone seriously expects WI to ever be a major power again and this'd be the same.
A lot can be done to take the sport to the masses like making it easier to get into the sport, getting sponsored local leagues running in disadvantaged areas, taking the national team out to those areas for warm up games and matches against Bangla & Zim but above all, don't mess with cash cow for grand but futile political gestures.
Cricket is the 3rd sport in SA, it used to be a lot closer to Rugby but it's become an insurmountable gap now. The money pouring into Rugby vs. Cricket's pittance should be depressing for any fan. I seriously think that Cricket's in pretty bad shape at the ground level and it's only a matter of time before this creeps it's way up. Franchise cricket is a basket case money wise, wholly dependant on international revenue and CSA assistance, even T20 attendances are fairly poor compared to List A games a decade ago.
It's all well and good to say that a cricketing culture needs to be developed from the ground up and the CSA aren't doing enough or there's a conspiracy. It's not my personal point of view but there are thousands of people who think that quotas should be enacted even up to national level, let's compromise the performance to give the country a more representative squad. I disagree wholeheartedly with that, I want to see my team win, every game, all the time. I want the best cricketers in the country in there, the best coaches.
It makes no difference to me if the teams all white, all black, all coloured or a hodgepodge but that doesn't mean I don't understand the merits of the other viewpoint. However, say we do put a few of the African players in, jettison Morkel for Lonwabo, Faf for Thami maybe even slide Themba in for Alviro and Phangiso in for the other Pieterson and continue to run along those lines. I wonder if all those thousands will part with their hard earned cash to replace the people who'll simply not go any longer because of an uncompetitive side.
Grand ideas about uniting the nation are fine, we can talk all day about how nice it would be to address socio-economic issues but I think in it's current state SA simply cannot afford a non-competitive team, it'll effectively mark the start of a slow death of the sport in the country. It'd be reminiscent of the West Indian slide, a slow drawn out but inevitable decline into perpetual mediocrity. I don't think anyone seriously expects WI to ever be a major power again and this'd be the same.
A lot can be done to take the sport to the masses like making it easier to get into the sport, getting sponsored local leagues running in disadvantaged areas, taking the national team out to those areas for warm up games and matches against Bangla & Zim but above all, don't mess with cash cow for grand but futile political gestures.
kykweer.proteas
International Debutant
While the barrier of entry for blacks in the sport is very small, I think it stretcges far wider as a lot of asians, coloureds even whites are also denied.
Of all the professional players I doubt very few of them did not go to good cricket schools and a player who could work himself into a team from playing for a poor club will truelly be exceptional.
A sport of have's and have not's. kids(regardless of race) who are not born in the 8 or so urban centers and schooled there will eventually be left behind in twenty or so years, if not much sooner.
Of all the professional players I doubt very few of them did not go to good cricket schools and a player who could work himself into a team from playing for a poor club will truelly be exceptional.
A sport of have's and have not's. kids(regardless of race) who are not born in the 8 or so urban centers and schooled there will eventually be left behind in twenty or so years, if not much sooner.
Last edited:
kykweer.proteas
International Debutant
In hindsight... I think Dale Steyn made progress through club cricket in the middle of nowhere.
Yeah went to Stopsley High School prior to that, can only assume he was given a scholarship or some kind.
Realised I am hijacking an excellent thread, so will end this. Anyway my point was that South African's all coming from elite private schools doesn't happen at all at the same scale in England as was suggested earlier.
Last edited:
kykweer.proteas
International Debutant
This is an article from 2009 when criciet was still the second most popular sport in South Africa, it has since been surpassed by rugby at the end of 2011.
Cricket tops participation levels | Sport Industry Group News
There has been positive growth in the game, but mostly black adult men, this though could only mean those people might now be with the means of affording cricket equipment.
Soccer or football will always be massive, it is also becoming a massive sport in sub continent cricket playing countries. They will also increasingly have this issue of where the poor simply cant play cricket or fairly compete, luckily for India they have the market to invest in poverty stricken communities and I think to a degree even Pakistan (though that is extremely hard to judge), but Sri Lanka, bangladesh and the west indies to a degree will face the same issues and rural areas in south africa in the foreseeable futue...
In the political poker game, all across the world, will it really be worth investing in those communities?
These investments should be long term, but unfortunately terms only last about 4 years.
Cricket tops participation levels | Sport Industry Group News
There has been positive growth in the game, but mostly black adult men, this though could only mean those people might now be with the means of affording cricket equipment.
Soccer or football will always be massive, it is also becoming a massive sport in sub continent cricket playing countries. They will also increasingly have this issue of where the poor simply cant play cricket or fairly compete, luckily for India they have the market to invest in poverty stricken communities and I think to a degree even Pakistan (though that is extremely hard to judge), but Sri Lanka, bangladesh and the west indies to a degree will face the same issues and rural areas in south africa in the foreseeable futue...
In the political poker game, all across the world, will it really be worth investing in those communities?
These investments should be long term, but unfortunately terms only last about 4 years.
Last edited:
kykweer.proteas
International Debutant
I think its not just that they play for elite expensive private schools.
Some "average" schools still compete with those fancy schools.
Last edited:
Quaggas
State Captain
Affies is public iirc
kykweer.proteas
International Debutant
They have very high school fees though. public schools these days are basically rural schools.
Proper teacher, coaches, school tours costs a lot of money.
Quaggas
State Captain
Of course. I was just trying to think of government schools with a "cricket pedigree." Martizburg is another, for example, but they don't have any international cricketers of note
Marius
International Debutant
So is KES.
Marius
International Debutant
But if you live in the feeder area, and prove you can't afford the fees, they have to accept you. Private schools don't.
But that doesn't mean they have to pay for you to have decent sporting equipment etc.
kykweer.proteas
International Debutant
I cant imagine many kids of townships that live in shacks regularly go to these types of schools. (schools in the top20 in SA).
Marius
International Debutant
I didn't say they did.
Apparently that's what Jacques Kallis's foundation does, they arrange bursaries for underprivileged kids that have shown a talent for cricket, to go to good schools.