***Official*** India in New Zealand 2013/14

[Flem274*]

re: Guptill.

I reckon he could do worse than study Matty Hayden.

We focus a lot on what Guptill does wrong, but I think he is worth sticking with (not in the test eleven tomorrow per se but in the squad) because it's just so obvious he has serious cricketing talent. He makes the things he does well (fielding, timing the ball, hitting) look so easy. He moves his feet into position early and is able to combine timing with power and he has the hunger all good test batsmen have. I still stand by what I said back on his dayboo that all he needs are lots of first class runs and confidence. He was initially persisted with for way too long but he has the goods.

Where he goes wrong is he tries to play like a stodgy little kiwi battler. He isn't, and he never will be imo unless he makes some big technical adjustments. Hayden was flawed but he was hungry and he looked to dominate. He gave the bowlers little margin for error and scared them. Guptill should do the same imo, because if he can get on top of the bowling they won't be all over his weaknesses. He should bring back all his shots and smoke some ****s like he tried to when he was first picked, except this time instead of 35 (40) he knows how to make big scores now.

 

[hendrix]

Guptill has his flaws but not many can keep up with him and Latham. Give him a chance to show he conforms to the Peter Fulton Rule (effectiveness + guts > technique). We don't have many who fit the Turner Equation (Technique + guts + effectiveness = success).

We already have a Peter Fulton Rule player opening. His name is Peter Fulton.

Come back to me when Guptill is 34, knows his weaknesses (he really doesn't seem to understand his limitations), and plays his game well enough to be effective. But only if we don't by that stage have genuine, test quality openers.

 

[hendrix]

Guptill should do the same imo, because if he can get on top of the bowling they won't be all over his weaknesses. He should bring back all his shots and smoke some ****s like he tried to when he was first picked, except this time instead of 35 (40) he knows how to make big scores now.

I agree that that's what he should do and would make him the most effective, but he's not doing that is he? He doesn't know how to make the most of himself at test cricket and until someone explains that to him he's un-selectable.

 

[Flem274*]

We already have a Peter Fulton Rule player opening. His name is Peter Fulton.

Come back to me when Guptill is 34, knows his weaknesses (he really doesn't seem to understand his limitations), and plays his game well enough to be effective. But only if we don't by that stage have genuine, test quality openers.

we will. the name of one will be martin guptill.

 

[Flem274*]

I agree that that's what he should do and would make him the most effective, but he's not doing that is he? He doesn't know how to make the most of himself at test cricket and until someone explains that to him he's un-selectable.

it's pretty conceivable rudds will need a spell from the test side and fulton has very little time left in the game due to his age. guptill averages 102 this season and latham can't bat twice. i rate raval but he can't keep up with guptill, latham and papps. that leaves papps. guptill > papps.

under mchesson i reckon guptill has a much higher chance of being told to play "#aggressively, #hisnaturalgame, #thewayheplays" than under the conservative wright who would have told the openers to not #batlikedicks

 

[hendrix]

it's pretty conceivable rudds will need a spell from the test side and fulton has very little time left in the game due to his age. guptill averages 102 this season and latham can't bat twice. i rate raval but he can't keep up with guptill, latham and papps. that leaves papps. guptill > papps.

under mchesson i reckon guptill has a much higher chance of being told to play "#aggressively, #hisnaturalgame, #thewayheplays" than under the conservative wright who would have told the openers to not #batlikedicks

haven't you watched these last 3 matches? Hesson thinks Guptill is an accumulator now. Lolololol.

Rutherford's spot may well open up at the same stage as Fulton retires. One of those spots clearly goes to Latham. I suppose I wouldn't mind Guptill taking the other if there's noone else, and we probably would need a second slip to replace Fulton too.

 

[Mike5181]

Guptill didn't fail at test level because of bad coach instructions. He just wasn't good enough. It's rare that we see a New Zealander averaging 42 with 2,200+ runs at just 21 years of age, so Latham deserves a chance on that West Indies tour later this year if one of our openers fail. Raval should be ahead of Guptill as well if we're being honest, although Neil Broom showed us that you need to dominate FC to earn a test spot. Averaging 47 in a season isn't going to get you noticed.

 

[Dan]

There won't be room for Guptill - Latham and Weerasundara will have the 1 & 2 spots sewn up.

 

[Athlai]

Guptill didn't fail at test level because of bad coach instructions. He just wasn't good enough. It's rare that we see a New Zealander averaging 42 with 2,200+ runs at just 21 years of age, so Latham deserves a chance on that West Indies tour later this year if one of our openers fail. Raval should be ahead of Guptill as well if we're being honest, although Neil Broom showed us that you need to dominate FC to earn a test spot. Averaging 47 in a season isn't going to get you noticed.

Raval shouldn't be ahead of Michael Papps.

Raval is an absolute myth.

 

[hendrix]

there's at least 3 people on here that think Raval's runs are due to Eden Park number 2 boundaries in which he just needs to tickle it around the corner.

To be honest, a leg glance is a pretty safe shot and I'm not really worried about a batsman having a reliance on it. The other dude I can think of who had a massive reliance on leg glances is Mark Richardson.

 

[Athlai]

there's at least 3 people on here that think Raval's runs are due to Eden Park number 2 boundaries in which he just needs to tickle it around the corner.

To be honest, a leg glance is a pretty safe shot and I'm not really worried about a batsman having a reliance on it. The other dude I can think of who had a massive reliance on leg glances is Mark Richardson.

I hear most Test games aren't played at Eden Park number 2. It wouldn't exactly take any captain very long to dry up those runs and keep Raval to even less runs than what he gets everywhere else in NZ.

Raval in Auckland 1465 @ 54.26

Raval not in Auckland 1302 @ 31.00

 

[Athlai]

To put that in perspective, Gareth Hopkins also averages mid 50s in Auckland.

 

[Blain]

A leg glance should be the bread and butter of all left handers.

I'm still not sold on Wagner btw. I think he doesn't offer enough until the 60th over to justify constant selection in the side. He is pretty much a stock bowler. And when you are also carrying Sodhi, if Southee or Boult don't step up, hello 500+. But I understand not rushing new fellas in too early, and his form over the last few years justifys selection.

Hopefully if Wheels and Henry get through this whole season around the top of the wicket charts, they will come into reckoning. Small's building some nice stats btw, he just needs to stay out of hospital.

 

[Athlai]

A leg glance should be the bread and butter of all left handers.

I'm still not sold on Wagner btw. I think he doesn't offer enough until the 60th over to justify constant selection in the side. He is pretty much a stock bowler. And when you are also carrying Sodhi, if Southee or Boult don't step up, hello 500+. But I understand not rushing new fellas in too early, and his form over the last few years justifys selection.

Hopefully if Wheels and Henry get through this whole season around the top of the wicket charts, they will come into reckoning. Small's building some nice stats btw, he just needs to stay out of hospital.

I think this is a pretty valid point, if we had Vettori instead of Sodhi there would be no issue at all with Wagner in the team in my eyes. But if we're deciding to run with Sodhi then Wagner isn't containing enough to be the safest pick.

 

[hendrix]

I hear most Test games aren't played at Eden Park number 2. It wouldn't exactly take any captain very long to dry up those runs and keep Raval to even less runs than what he gets everywhere else in NZ.

Raval in Auckland 1465 @ 54.26

Raval not in Auckland 1302 @ 31.00

Can you do this for Guptill and tell me the results?

 

[Athlai]

Can you do this for Guptill and tell me the results?

Do you want me to exclude Tests?

 

[Athlai]

Guptill has never played a Test in Auckland, so thats fairly easy

Eden Park Outer Oval 1068 @ 53.40

 

[hendrix]

Do you want me to exclude Tests?

yes

 

[Athlai]

Including Test matches and international grounds and all that jazz Guptill averages 33.14 away from Auckland

 

[KiWiNiNjA]

So you are saying Martin Guptill is an absolute myth?