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Thread: ***Official*** India in New Zealand 2013/14

  1. #2221
    International Debutant Blocky's Avatar
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    If we don't have a spinner of international quality, why do we persist in picking them? It's not about "allowing them to develop" - these are the conditions that they will be asked to play in half of their matches, New Zealand conditions. If they're unable to make a big impact in domestic cricket then they should never even get close to selection for test cricket. Sodhi has played 21 first class matches and has yet to get his average under 50 with the ball. There is more to indicate that he is a better option as a batsman who bowls a bit based on his performances so far, although his batting for ND isn't strong enough to reserve a place in the side either.

    Meanwhile in the exact same team, with the exact same conditions, you have Kane Williamson who as a part timer, has out performed Sodhi and also out performed him in the tests and almost criminally, Jono Boult is being left out for Sodhi to play, despite being as capable with the bat and having a much better domestic record from his 16 matches.

    I'd much rather see us use Kane Williamson as our spin option with some back up from someone like Ryder than give a position to a guy who should be under serious debate for his own province, let alone the national set up. The only way these guys are going to learn cricket isn't to play test cricket, it's to play domestic cricket and string together some consistent performances. As maligned as Vettori is, he goes back to domestic cricket and performs every time. So I don't buy this bull**** that we should select someone who hasn't proven themselves in representitive cricket on the basis of potential and the fact that a few people like the fact that he is a leg spinner who can land three out of six on the wicket.

    ps, "Martin would be so ****" - Martin got selected to New Zealand about six years after he should've been, his performances at test level are comparable to Sodhi's at domestic level. Why do we consider Sodhi anything other than a failed prospect?

    ND wise, he has all the hallmarks of being someone they're being asked to select. He came down from Auckland because he couldn't get in the side there (Bruce Martin = better) and suddenly he's beating out a flock of young talent that ND had been preparing a number of years like Mitchell Santner (who I'll argue has a better chance at being a consistent performer for ND than Sodhi), Josef Baker and Jono Boult. All of whom to this point have better performances in Hawke Cup and better performances in A cricket than Sodhi does.

    Sodhi just reaks of a political choice, because NZ once again are fapping over the prospect of a leg spinner. We've seen this with Brooke Walker who was utterly horrid.
    Last edited by Blocky; 24-01-2014 at 04:44 AM.
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  2. #2222
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    Sodhi > Jono Boult. Fairly ridiculous statement, it's hardly like Jono Boult has been any good at all, at least Sodhi has promise. But yeah Sodhi should be on the fringe of ND, not NZ.

    Williamson should be our spinner because our 2nd best spinner is Jeets. And Jeets doesn't really deserve to be bowling in Test cricket.
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    gotcha.

    now for a slight adjustment to make it juicier...there we go.
    Quote Originally Posted by Athlai View Post
    Jeets doesn't really deserve to be bowling.
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    You son of a bitch.
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  5. #2225
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blocky View Post
    I'd much rather see us use Kane Williamson as our spin option with some back up from someone like Ryder than give a position to a guy who should be under serious debate for his own province, let alone the national set up.
    So should we pick 4 seamers? Or 3 seamers with Corey/Ryder/Williamson backing up?

  6. #2226
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prensel View Post
    So should we pick 4 seamers? Or 3 seamers with Corey/Ryder/Williamson backing up?
    Yeah he said a fourth seamer earlier iirc. Hesson/Edgar have already said Ryder's not in the Test frame. Southee back up to No. 8, Bennett or Henry come in.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kippax View Post
    Hesson/Edgar have already said Ryder's not in the Test frame.
    Whyyyyyyy

  8. #2228
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prensel View Post
    Whyyyyyyy
    Was just relayed into this thread via a radio interview after the 1st ODI iirc.

    Nope, never made their bulletins by the looks. It's pretty much just easy listening music and games of office cricket at Radio Sport these days, occasionally taking a break to put some of your own thoughts about Milne into Shane Bond's mouth.

  9. #2229
    Cricketer Of The Year hendrix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kippax View Post
    Yeah he said a fourth seamer earlier iirc. Hesson/Edgar have already said Ryder's not in the Test frame. Southee back up to No. 8, Bennett or Henry come in.
    utterly ludicrous.

    He's the second best batsman in the country. I've said it before, but I'd be dropping Williamson before I leave out Ryder. Obviously I'm not dropping Williamson, but the point is they should be doing anything to get him in the team.

  10. #2230
    International Debutant ohnoitsyou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blocky View Post
    If we don't have a spinner of international quality, why do we persist in picking them? It's not about "allowing them to develop" - these are the conditions that they will be asked to play in half of their matches, New Zealand conditions. If they're unable to make a big impact in domestic cricket then they should never even get close to selection for test cricket. Sodhi has played 21 first class matches and has yet to get his average under 50 with the ball. There is more to indicate that he is a better option as a batsman who bowls a bit based on his performances so far, although his batting for ND isn't strong enough to reserve a place in the side either.

    Meanwhile in the exact same team, with the exact same conditions, you have Kane Williamson who as a part timer, has out performed Sodhi and also out performed him in the tests and almost criminally, Jono Boult is being left out for Sodhi to play, despite being as capable with the bat and having a much better domestic record from his 16 matches.

    I'd much rather see us use Kane Williamson as our spin option with some back up from someone like Ryder than give a position to a guy who should be under serious debate for his own province, let alone the national set up. The only way these guys are going to learn cricket isn't to play test cricket, it's to play domestic cricket and string together some consistent performances. As maligned as Vettori is, he goes back to domestic cricket and performs every time. So I don't buy this bull**** that we should select someone who hasn't proven themselves in representitive cricket on the basis of potential and the fact that a few people like the fact that he is a leg spinner who can land three out of six on the wicket.

    ps, "Martin would be so ****" - Martin got selected to New Zealand about six years after he should've been, his performances at test level are comparable to Sodhi's at domestic level. Why do we consider Sodhi anything other than a failed prospect?

    ND wise, he has all the hallmarks of being someone they're being asked to select. He came down from Auckland because he couldn't get in the side there (Bruce Martin = better) and suddenly he's beating out a flock of young talent that ND had been preparing a number of years like Mitchell Santner (who I'll argue has a better chance at being a consistent performer for ND than Sodhi), Josef Baker and Jono Boult. All of whom to this point have better performances in Hawke Cup and better performances in A cricket than Sodhi does.

    Sodhi just reaks of a political choice, because NZ once again are fapping over the prospect of a leg spinner. We've seen this with Brooke Walker who was utterly horrid.
    Agree with most of this.

    However do we really want to tell Williamson that he's going to be our main spinner, when he's not the finished product with the bat yet.

    Ideally in the future he will be a proper test match all-rounder, but until then we need a someone to bowl quick overs so McCullum doesn't get a match ban. Actually on second thoughts, lets go with four quicks so Ryder can get his rightful spot.

  11. #2231
    International Debutant Blocky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athlai View Post
    Sodhi > Jono Boult. Fairly ridiculous statement, it's hardly like Jono Boult has been any good at all, at least Sodhi has promise. But yeah Sodhi should be on the fringe of ND, not NZ.

    Williamson should be our spinner because our 2nd best spinner is Jeets. And Jeets doesn't really deserve to be bowling in Test cricket.
    Yet Sodhi has only taken three more wickets than Bolt yet played 5 more matches, same conditions, lower average, better strike rate, lower RPO. So why again do we think Sodhi is a better player than Boult? Because he bowls right arm leg spin? He's been gifted his opportunities for ND and off the back of that, even worse, he got gifted opportunities for NZ. He's proven in both his domestic and international cricket that he has no sustained control over his line and length and the only wickets he gets are mistakes from players. That's fine at club cricket, anyone of us who has played any level of club cricket has seen spinners taking bagfuls of wickets due to the mistakes of the opposition but in test cricket? Even first class? Horrible option.

    Quote Originally Posted by ohnoitsyou View Post
    Agree with most of this.

    However do we really want to tell Williamson that he's going to be our main spinner, when he's not the finished product with the bat yet.

    Ideally in the future he will be a proper test match all-rounder, but until then we need a someone to bowl quick overs so McCullum doesn't get a match ban. Actually on second thoughts, lets go with four quicks so Ryder can get his rightful spot.
    Look, I don't think it's about telling Williamson that he's our main bowler. I think it's about going into matches with four specialist quick bowlers who each offer something different at the crease, in the knowledge that Williamson can and has stepped up with the ball and will offer you more than the current options not named Vettori, who seems more interested in his coaching career than being an NZ cricketer now.

    Ryder should be playing and in my view, either as an opening batsman, or as #5 with McCullum opening. I think our hole at the moment is the top order and McCullum has performed the job with some degree of success. I also think Ryder has the tools to be a very good opening bat in test. But they won't select him and I'm 90% sure they will select Sodhi for the first test.

  12. #2232
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blocky View Post
    Ryder should be playing and in my view, either as an opening batsman, or as #5 with McCullum opening. I think our hole at the moment is the top order and McCullum has performed the job with some degree of success. I also think Ryder has the tools to be a very good opening bat in test.
    Agree with all of this, but McCullum opening and Ryder at 5 would bring more runs than the other way around.

  13. #2233
    International Debutant ohnoitsyou's Avatar
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    Ryder is still a long way of being an opener. His footwork just isn't there yet.

  14. #2234
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blocky View Post
    Yet Sodhi has only taken three more wickets than Bolt yet played 5 more matches, same conditions, lower average, better strike rate, lower RPO. So why again do we think Sodhi is a better player than Boult? Because he bowls right arm leg spin? He's been gifted his opportunities for ND and off the back of that, even worse, he got gifted opportunities for NZ. He's proven in both his domestic and international cricket that he has no sustained control over his line and length and the only wickets he gets are mistakes from players. That's fine at club cricket, anyone of us who has played any level of club cricket has seen spinners taking bagfuls of wickets due to the mistakes of the opposition but in test cricket? Even first class? Horrible option.
    Because anyone with half decent cricket knowledge can see the massive chasm between them both talent wise and ability wise.
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  15. #2235
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    Christ on a bike. The Sodhi trash talking is ridiculous. Young attacking bowler has expensive average in first year of FC cricket shock!!! Like Bennett, McClenaghan, Bracewelll also had ......

    Also the stats cherry picking is annoying, Sodhi's comparable stats to Boult are a it better when it's actually same teams, same wickets etc as implied. his Plunket shield average is 48, yeah still not great but......

    Glad I have managed to up Sodhi without trashing Jono Boult, I saw Jono bowl a doosra in the HRV which got me excited. Now expect 4 pages of lecturing about not knowing the difference between spin and drift .......
    Last edited by Immenso; 24-01-2014 at 05:31 PM.
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