Will West Indies ever become as good as they were?

[Esperance]

No.

They were always bad and got lucky a lot.

 

[WindieWeathers]

I think it's very telling that West Indies haven't produced one world class player since Lara and Chanderpaul. That said, I think this is probably a more optimistic time to be a West Indian fan than the last 10 years or so. Bravo and Roach, as you said, genuinely look quality. Ramdin has improved a great deal since he's become captain, Brathwaite has tremendouspromise and if Narine somehow escaped the ICC, West Indies have 4-5 good players on a plate. It's not much, but there's no doubt that it is slightly better than what's come in the last decade or so.

Excuse me? How is Roach not world class? Darren Bravo is also averaging mid 40s aswell while the likes of Pujara and Kohli got found out recently..Imo Darren is a world class performer when he's in full slow.

Kraigg and Holder look very good too...and hopefully this year Narine's test career will really start to get going starting with the India series coming up which he is set to feature in.

The fact is for years our domestic structure has pretty much been of semi-pro standards...that's set to change now with the new franchize system starting in November and more games to boot. With a better structure in place which is in line with the likes of Australia, England etc then i very much expect us to progress in the years to come. If we can produce a Roach, Bravo, Narine, Brathwaite, Holder etc in a sub-standard system then lord knows what will emerge with a decent system.

 

[WindieWeathers]

Is it too far to suggest he could become another Gilchrist in the future? he's only just turned 18 after all

 

[WindieWeathers]

I just don't see what Narine has done to usurp Benn as the spinner. Benn has been invaluable since his return. Wickets and excellent economy and long spells which have enabled Roach and Taylor the requisite rest.

There's different levels to the game Hendrix. Benn would be great for many other sides and it's good to see him back. But the bottom line is in Narine we have someone who could be a WI legend and is a world class talent just waiting to explode on the test scene as we saw in his last test in NZ!!..no point holding the lad back anymore.

 

[WindieWeathers]

Also a potential alrounder to watch out for is young Raymon Reifer..played a very good knock for the Tridents the other day and just needs to find consistency with the bat now to really make a claim.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Excuse me? How is Roach not world class? Darren Bravo is also averaging mid 40s aswell while the likes of Pujara and Kohli got found out recently..Imo Darren is a world class performer when he's in full slow.

Kraigg and Holder look very good too...and hopefully this year Narine's test career will really start to get going starting with the India series coming up which he is set to feature in.

The fact is for years our domestic structure has pretty much been of semi-pro standards...that's set to change now with the new franchize system starting in November and more games to boot. With a better structure in place which is in line with the likes of Australia, England etc then i very much expect us to progress in the years to come. If we can produce a Roach, Bravo, Narine, Brathwaite, Holder etc in a sub-standard system then lord knows what will emerge with a decent system.

Hilarious selective bolding. Just read the next sentence after the one you bolded where I said they do look really good.

If you honestly couldn't understand that what I meant was that between Lara-Chanders and now Bravo-Roach, West indies have produced virtually nothing in terms of genuine world class, I have nothing to say. And jeez, why do you have to always make this a your country vs mine thing every single time? Worst sort of posting. Keep to the topic. Everyone knows Kohli and Pujara were walking wickets in England, so your cutting insight is unnecessary.

 

[marc71178]

There's different levels to the game Hendrix. Benn would be great for many other sides and it's good to see him back. But the bottom line is in Narine we have someone who could be a WI legend and is a world class talent just waiting to explode on the test scene as we saw in his last test in NZ!!..no point holding the lad back anymore.

There are different levels to the game yes, and he's still waiting to burst onto the scene because he'd rather play a different level (T20) than for his country (or in fact any first class cricket) - he's played 2 FC games in the last 22 months FFS.

Benn on the other hand has actually proven a hell of a lot more than Narine has on so many levels.

As for no point holding him back, there's a ton of reasons to not select, not least his mediocre Test record and attitude towards red ball cricket.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Don't think the board will risk selecting Narine anyway. Benn is the cleaner, safer and more proven option.

 

[WindieWeathers]

Hilarious selective bolding. Just read the next sentence after the one you bolded where I said they do look really good.

If you honestly couldn't understand that what I meant was that between Lara-Chanders and now Bravo-Roach, West indies have produced virtually nothing in terms of genuine world class, I have nothing to say. And jeez, why do you have to always make this a your country vs mine thing every single time? Worst sort of posting. Keep to the topic. Everyone knows Kohli and Pujara were walking wickets in England, so your cutting insight is unnecessary.

Sigh!!..firstly maybe if you learned how to construct a sentence properly there would be no confusion? YOU said "WI haven't produced a world class player since Lara and Chanderpaul"..now unless i'm missing something Roach and Bravo made their debuts AFTER Lara and Chanders..so clearly you either wrote that sentence wrong or you really believe that naive statement?!!..either way it's not true imo and no amount of "Bravo and Roach are good players" excuses is gonna change that. They aren't just "good" they are world class in todays climate.

Furthermore what is this "country" stuff you're talking about? i never even knew you were an India fan tbh!!..i was merely talking about players of a similar age to Darren who also had similar stats and people were calling them "world class" so why isn't Darren? don't put words in my mouth please.

 

[WindieWeathers]

There are different levels to the game yes, and he's still waiting to burst onto the scene because he'd rather play a different level (T20) than for his country (or in fact any first class cricket) - he's played 2 FC games in the last 22 months FFS.

Benn on the other hand has actually proven a hell of a lot more than Narine has on so many levels.

As for no point holding him back, there's a ton of reasons to not select, not least his mediocre Test record and attitude towards red ball cricket.

LOL can always rely on Marc to have a go at Narine!! ...for a start he was foolishly banned by the board during our recent series against NZ...that was NOT his fault and was merely down to a silly new rule which has now suddenly been relaxed!!..secondly in his last test he got a 6fer in NZ...so clearly he's getting better at test level. It remains to be seen how he does in India but clearly he'll be wanting to emulate the "next Murali" that is Moen Ali .

 

[marc71178]

Sigh!!..firstly maybe if you learned how to construct a sentence properly there would be no confusion? YOU said "WI haven't produced a world class player since Lara and Chanderpaul"..now unless i'm missing something Roach and Bravo made their debuts AFTER Lara and Chanders..so clearly you either wrote that sentence wrong or you really believe that naive statement?!!..either way it's not true imo and no amount of "Bravo and Roach are good players" excuses is gonna change that. They aren't just "good" they are world class in todays climate.

Furthermore what is this "country" stuff you're talking about? i never even knew you were an India fan tbh!!..i was merely talking about players of a similar age to Darren who also had similar stats and people were calling them "world class" so why isn't Darren? don't put words in my mouth please.

Bravo has a long way to go to be called world class, an average in the low 40s plus being found out in much the same way as the Indians you derided have been don't really help his cause.

 

[marc71178]

LOL can always rely on Marc to have a go at Narine!! ...for a start he was foolishly banned by the board during our recent series against NZ...that was NOT his fault and was merely down to a silly new rule which has now suddenly been relaxed!!..secondly in his last test he got a 6fer in NZ...so clearly he's getting better at test level. It remains to be seen how he does in India but clearly he'll be wanting to emulate the "next Murali" that is Moen Ali .

So his reaction to the "ridiculous" dropping for choosing IPL over Tests (which was his choice) was to opt out of the next Tests to play T20. Clearly someone who's dedicated to the cause.

As for the nationalistic tub thumping, nobody has called Ali anything of that sort but even now he's proven more in Tests than Narine (who I seem to remember you started a thread asking if he could be an ATG.

 

[WindieWeathers]

Bravo has a long way to go to be called world class, an average in the low 40s plus being found out in much the same way as the Indians you derided have been don't really help his cause.

"Found out"? the lad played TWO tests, the second one while injured and out of those four innings he was stupidly ran out just as he was starting to get the better of the bowlers...i don't think judging him on two tests is enough. Kirk Edwards was the one totally exposed..not Darren imo.

Also in his age range his average is very good..Kohli, Williamson etc are below him.

 

[WindieWeathers]

So his reaction to the "ridiculous" dropping for choosing IPL over Tests (which was his choice) was to opt out of the next Tests to play T20. Clearly someone who's dedicated to the cause.

As for the nationalistic tub thumping, nobody has called Ali anything of that sort but even now he's proven more in Tests than Narine (who I seem to remember you started a thread asking if he could be an ATG.

Nothing "nationalistic" there it's just BANTER..so lighten up please. Secondly Narine has apparently made a deal with the board to skip the last Bang series and then play against India and SA...after that he's also expected to play against England, so if he contrives to miss that in favor of IPL then you might have a point. He never "chose" IPL over the NZ series as it ended BEFORE the NZ series started..so please get it right.

Lastly Narine's home average is low 20s in tests...So until Ali does something abroad i can't agree with that "proven more" statement.

 

[Howsie]

Eh, Bravo isn't world class.

 

[WindieWeathers]

Eh, Bravo isn't world class.

Name batsmen in their 20s who are world class then Howsie? please enlighten me

 

[hendrix]

There's different levels to the game Hendrix. Benn would be great for many other sides and it's good to see him back. But the bottom line is in Narine we have someone who could be a WI legend and is a world class talent just waiting to explode on the test scene as we saw in his last test in NZ!!..no point holding the lad back anymore.

Benn has run through Bangladesh, who while not a strong team are excellent players of spin bowling. Benn also took key wickets against NZ. He's a better fielder, is much fitter and I would trust him far more to bowl 20+ overs in a day than Narine.

I have strong doubts whether Narine would last 5 days with a large workload.

The one off Test Narine played in Hamilton, yes, he did bowl very well. But Benn has bowled well over a much longer period and deserves his incumbency. The only way for Narine to get into the side would be for the Windies to play 2 spinners, which is not going to happen.

He'll have to wait his turn.

 

[Bahnz]

Name batsmen in their 20s who are world class then Howsie? please enlighten me

Angelo Mathews is definitely world class. Warner too. But you're right, there aren't many top class bats who've yet to celebrate their 30th.

There remains - imo - an enormous difference between the likes of Chanderpaul and Lara and Bravo. I didn't really follow the "what's the definition of World Class" thread that closely, but I'd argue fairly strongly that Bravo doesn't make the cut yet.

 

[Goughy]

Angelo Mathews is definitely world class. Warner too. But you're right, there aren't many top class bats who've yet to celebrate their 30th.

There remains - imo - an enormous difference between the likes of Chanderpaul and Lara and Bravo. I didn't really follow the "what's the definition of World Class" thread that closely, but I'd argue fairly strongly that Bravo doesn't make the cut yet.

Cant we add Jow Root to that list? But I agree, there are not too many batsmen on their 20s who look top class.

 

[WindieWeathers]

Benn has run through Bangladesh, who while not a strong team are excellent players of spin bowling. Benn also took key wickets against NZ. He's a better fielder, is much fitter and I would trust him far more to bowl 20+ overs in a day than Narine.

I have strong doubts whether Narine would last 5 days with a large workload.

The one off Test Narine played in Hamilton, yes, he did bowl very well. But Benn has bowled well over a much longer period and deserves his incumbency. The only way for Narine to get into the side would be for the Windies to play 2 spinners, which is not going to happen.

He'll have to wait his turn.

Well actually it wasn't just a "one off" against NZ was it? he's hurt them in three tests he's played against them. And Benn "running through bang" means absolutely nothing..when we needed him in the second innings of the 3rd test against NZ he was nowhere to be seen...i don't think Sunny would have let us down like that.

Like i said there are levels..Benn is good, Narine can be great...big difference and that is why Sunny will play against India whether Benn is there or not.