England A to play in India's Duleep Trophy

[luckyeddie]

Because this is technically a domestic tour and international eligibility won't come into it, I think that Kevin Pietersen is an absolute certainty.

The academy squad named last September was

Kadeer Ali
Simon Francis
Alex Gidman
Simon Jones
Shaftab Khalid
Michael Lumb
Sajid Mahmood
Graham Napier
Scott Newman
Kevin Pietersen
Matthew Prior
Bilal Shafayat
James Tredwell
Graham Wagg

I think that more than 50% of those names will make the trip

 

[Neil Pickup]

And I think that every last one will, injury permitting.

 

[Pratters]

Whereas the academy players are clearly there for the sightseeing and partying?

In all countries its the A side which is net in line for national selection and not an academy side. I cant help it if England has funny ways.

 

[luckyeddie]

In all countries its the A side which is net in line for national selection and not an academy side. I cant help it if England has funny ways.

England are trying something a little different now the academy is being run by Rod Marsh - and I for one like the way things are going. It's all about building for the future.

If the Indian authorities are happy with the side coming over to take part in the Duleep Trophy, who's to say it's wrong?

You said yourself that no-one goes to watch the games. Should England be sending a team over of fringe players who have never consolidated a place and in all likelihood never will do, or give the young guns a chance to show what they can do?

The 'A' team are certainly not 'next in line' - they are the ones who aren't as good. It's the younger players who will form the new generation of the England team.

 

[Pratters]

The 'A' team are certainly not 'next in line' - they are the ones who aren't as good. It's the younger players who will form the new generation of the England team.

Thats why I said the English selectors are being funny to create an English A side not having players likely to make the team. India A usually has the younger players istelf with a few older ones having a chance to make the team. So the mix would be better. Its good for the Duleep trophy the 'whatever' name side which may be the players likely to make the team are coming. :S

 

[luckyeddie]

Thats why I said the English selectors are being funny to create an English A side not having players likely to make the team. India A usually has the younger players istelf with a few older ones having a chance to make the team. So the mix would be better. Its good for the Duleep trophy the 'whatever' name side which may be the players likely to make the team are coming. :S

Over the years, the England 'A' team has been, as you so rightly say, the 'sceond layer' - the players who would step up to the test side - but where the system differed from the Indian one was the fact that the players tended to come in, go out, come back in and so on. You could almost look on it as the 'reserves'.

What they are now trying to do is to redress the balance somewhat - no more 30-year olds in the 'stiffs' who get promoted to the first team when someone gets injured only to disappear again when the regular is fit again.

The 'Academy' side is now the 'A' side - and I'm willing to bet that more than one of the 15 I named will be in the England test team before the end of this year (OK, Simon Jones is one obvious candidate, Kevin Pietersen is another) - hopefully there are 3 or 4 others who will be pushing for a place in 2005.

Who would you rather see? Dominic Cork? Mark Ramprakash? (actually, both are great to watch, but as you earlier intimated, no-one watches the Duleep Trophy games anyway)

 

[V Reddy]

The South Zone squad is

S. Ramesh (capt.), S. Sriram, S. Sharath, S. Badrinath, R. Ram Kumar, D. Tamil Kumaran (Tamil Nadu), Y. Venugopala Rao (vice-capt.), M.S.K. Prasad (Andhra), Arjun Yadav, N.P. Singh, Shivaji Yadav, Ibrahim Khaleel (Hyderabad), Rowland Barrington (Karnataka), Sreeshant (Kerala) and Swapnil Asnodkar (Goa). Manager-***-coach: K.S. Baskara Ramamurthy (Andhra).

Good batting side but mediocre bowling attack but the English team will find it difficult as they face them on their own conditions.

 

[Richard]

And what would you know about the quality of spinners in the Duleep Trophy ?

Lot of young players in the Indian zonal teams....I'm sure you wouldn't have seen a lot of them.

I know that most of them are fingerspinners, and I know that England have several decent fingerspinners who are in my eyes equal in ability to the like of Murali Kartik, Nilesh Kulkarni, Sunil Joshi, Nikhil Chopra and any other Indian fingerspinners.
Just because India typically serves-up more spin-friendly wickets doesn't make the spinners better bowlers, but it does mean that batting is more challenging.

 

[Richard]

Well, there's one absolute certainty for the full England side in the squad next year and a few 'probables' within 2-3 years - provided they get the necessary experience, of course.

Why is it that India can produce test players at 16 or 17 yet you (Pratyush) begrudge England not sending an 'A' team (of 25+ year olds) over as opposed to the (IMO) splendid idea of giving the youngsters a chance to get experience of a higher standard of cricket TOGETHER?

The whole idea of an academy is to fast-track players of some potential, rather than the old 'tried and tested and failed' method of a couple of years in the seconds, a few first XI games, maybe an 'A' team tour by the time they are 23 or 24 then just possibly a run-out in the test side at 25 or 26?

And how often does fast-tracking work?
Not very often. Most 17, 18, 19-year-olds who make their international debuts don't end-up successes.

 

[Richard]

There is no such team in existance though.

An 'A' team does not "exist" - it is selected whenever anyone wants it to play a match.
England 'A' never played tour-games against touring nations, they only ever went on tour. 'A'-tours were scrapped after 2000\01 (in my view a mistake - fine, have an Academy, but don't replace 'A'-tours) and so England 'A' haven't played a game for ages.
That doesn't mean they can't again.

 

[iamdavid]

The purpose of an A tour is to pick the best 14/13 players not already in the test squad.
Therefore I beleive-

1.R.T.W.Key
2.A.J.Strauss
3.E.Smith
4.K.Pieterson
5.J.Troughton/I.Bell/Kadeer Ali
6.M.Wagh
7.J.Foster/M.Prior/M.Wallace
8.K.Ali
9.J.Brown/K.Keedy (would like to see Schofeild but I wont kid myself , he aint been good enough lately )
10.J.Kirtley
11.M.Saggers
12.S.Jones (isnt officialy on tour yet) ,
13.Chilton (although it'd be good to get someone with a bit of experience , like Loye , despite his age he's got the ability)
14.I.Blackwell or other allrounder (dont rate Blackwell as a test prospect myself)

 

[Arjun]

The South Zone squad is

S. Ramesh (capt.), S. Sriram, S. Sharath, S. Badrinath, R. Ram Kumar, D. Tamil Kumaran (Tamil Nadu), Y. Venugopala Rao (vice-capt.), M.S.K. Prasad (Andhra), Arjun Yadav, N.P. Singh, Shivaji Yadav, Ibrahim Khaleel (Hyderabad), Rowland Barrington (Karnataka), Sreeshant (Kerala) and Swapnil Asnodkar (Goa). Manager-***-coach: K.S. Baskara Ramamurthy (Andhra).

Good batting side but mediocre bowling attack but the English team will find it difficult as they face them on their own conditions.

Not a single known name in bowling here! Good to see MSK Prasad, since he is the best batting wicketkeeper after Nayan. Sreeshanth bowled rather well in the tour match where he figured, but did not last long. He can also bat a bit. But then, like most Indian seamers, he is quite under-powered. What's with these Goa players? How did they make it? Usually the plate teams are the weaker ones in the circuit, so the selection of one player from there is a bit surprising, though Kerala are not in that league, though they've just been relegated. TN has a decent bowling attack, so does Karnataka, so it's a bit surprising not many of them are picked.

 

[Arjun]

Who would you rather see? Dominic Cork? Mark Ramprakash?

Crowds would not gather to see a slightly-faster-than-medium pacer who can't move the ball away from England, or a defensive player. A Simon Jones or Ian Blackwell would definitely attract some attention, since these players make things happen. Things don't always happen in these matches. That's why the crowds are so small. A scorecard in the morning papers is enough.

 

[Richard]

People like to watch Corkie because of more than just his bowling!
Blackwell wouldn't attract any attention because everyone with any sense knows how totally useless he is. Jones might attract some attention but not until he actually makes himself look like a good bowler - something he hasn't done yet.
Ramprakash is a brilliant batsman and not just a defensive one.
And if you're seeking crowds at Duleep matches, you're going to be sadly disappointed. Crowds at domestic First-Class-cricket are a thing of the past, as The ECB would do well to note!

 

[luckyeddie]

Full squad

Kadeer Ali (Worcestershire),
Simon Francis (Somerset),
Alex Gidman (Gloucestershire, capt),
Simon Jones (Glamorgan),
Shaftab Khalid (Worcestershire),
Michael Lumb (Yorkshire),
Sajid Mahmood (Lancashire),
Graham Napier (Essex),
Scott Newman (Surrey),
Kevin Pietersen (Nottinghamshire),
Matthew Prior (Sussex),
Bilal Shafayat (Nottinghamshire),
Ed Smith (Kent),
James Tredwell (Kent),
Graham Wagg (Warwickshire).

Ed Smith the only addition to the 14 we named earlier.

 

[chris.hinton]

Full squad

Kadeer Ali (Worcestershire),
Simon Francis (Somerset),
Alex Gidman (Gloucestershire, capt),
Simon Jones (Glamorgan),
Shaftab Khalid (Worcestershire),
Michael Lumb (Yorkshire),
Sajid Mahmood (Lancashire),
Graham Napier (Essex),
Scott Newman (Surrey),
Kevin Pietersen (Nottinghamshire),
Matthew Prior (Sussex),
Bilal Shafayat (Nottinghamshire),
Ed Smith (Kent),
James Tredwell (Kent),
Graham Wagg (Warwickshire).

Ed Smith the only addition to the 14 we named earlier.

that a poor squad take out Wagg, Mahmood, and add Kabir Ali and another batsman

 

[chris.hinton]

Full squad

Kadeer Ali (Worcestershire),
Simon Francis (Somerset),
Alex Gidman (Gloucestershire, capt),
Simon Jones (Glamorgan),
Shaftab Khalid (Worcestershire),
Michael Lumb (Yorkshire),
Sajid Mahmood (Lancashire),
Graham Napier (Essex),
Scott Newman (Surrey),
Kevin Pietersen (Nottinghamshire),
Matthew Prior (Sussex),
Bilal Shafayat (Nottinghamshire),
Ed Smith (Kent),
James Tredwell (Kent),
Graham Wagg (Warwickshire).

Ed Smith the only addition to the 14 we named earlier.

what will be the batting line up

Newman
Smith
Kadder Ali
Pietersen
Shahyat
Gidman
Prior
Jones
Tredwell
Wagg
Mahmood

Francis, Khalid, Napier and Lub left out i think

 

[Neil Pickup]

Duleep Trophy = India = Spinning pitches

Please explain the selection of the one spinner, Chris...

SA Newman
BM Shafayat
ET Smith
KJ Pietersen
MJ Lumb
*APR Gidman
+MJ Prior
JC Tredwell
SP Jones
S Khalid
SRG Francis/S Mahmood

 

[marc71178]

that a poor squad take out Wagg, Mahmood, and add Kabir Ali and another batsman

Graeme Hick or Ben Smith for me...

 

[marc71178]

re: Wagg - Bumble is quoted on skysports.com that "And it's good for Warwickshire's Graham Wagg, a slightly older player, to be in the squad and he joins a few other `brainy` chaps in the party who I hope will appreciate that this is a great opportunity to put pressure on the senior players."

FYI Bumble, Wagg is 20...

Mind you that was just after he questioned Pietersen's selection, suggesting he'd be better off playing for SA.

If he's that good and wants to play for England, logic says you don't turn him down...