Seam movement - Random or not?

[OverratedSanity]

I've always thought that by its very definition, seam movement was the random deviation of the ball when it lands on its seam.
I used to attend this cricket coaching camp organised by Kiran More in Vadodara and one of the coaches there used to tell the bowlers to try and seam the ball back into the bowler by angling the seam or something. But I always thought angling the seam is used to produce swing, not seam movement, and so always thought that coach was talking out of his backside. On the other hand I've seen Kulasekara almost without fail seam the ball back into the right hander when he bowls the inswinger instead of it straightening the other way. So is it completely random or can the bowler do something to influence which way it'll move off the deck?

 

[OverratedSanity]

Apologies if this has been asked before, obviously

 

[Burgey]

Not

 

[OverratedSanity]

But how?

 

[Agent Nationaux]

I doubt someone like Asif or Philander has complete control over how a delivery seams.

 

[Maximas]

I used to run in and release the ball seam up and hope for the best, and occasionally I could get it to seam quite a lot, but it was pretty much random. But there are ways to somewhat increase the likelihood of the ball seaming one way or the other by angling the seam I believe, but I always thought just keeping the seam upright and seeing what happened was the best way to go.

 

[Burgey]

McGrath to Warner. All stars T20 v Australia. Look it up on YouTube

 

[Maximas]

McGrath to Warner. All stars T20 v Australia. Look it up on YouTube

Seam movement or just purely angling the ball across him and pushing it wider?

 

[Agent Nationaux]

Doesn't a green wicket assist seam movement?

 

[Adders]

Can't say as I know **** all about this, but you always hear the commentators talk about "angling the seam towards the slips"........I always assumed the bowler (well good ones anyway LOL) had some control over the seam movement off the deck.

Good thread OP, be interesting to hear what some of our cluey posters have to say.

 

[andruid]

Going to suggest that the amount and direction (forward or backward) of rotation you impart on the ball at the point of release can affect seam movement.

 

[hendrix]

Can't say as I know **** all about this, but you always hear the commentators talk about "angling the seam towards the slips"........I always assumed the bowler (well good ones anyway LOL) had some control over the seam movement off the deck.

That's to do with swing.

A lot of what looks like seam movement is actually just very late, minimal swing -e.g. Zaheer Khan used to be quite good at this.

 

[Riggins]

Not random. Not perfectly controllable or predictable.

 

[zaremba]

I remember Angus Fraser being asked in an interview what his stock ball was. He said that it was the one that seamed back in to the right-hander, because he tried to take the ball away from the bat but more often than not it did the opposite. It's maybe telling that such a high-class exponent of the art should have so little control over seam movement.

 

[Top_Cat]

^^^^^^^ almost word-for-word what I was going to say.

McGrath had it right for many reasons but one in particular was how blokes like him put the ball in such a good spot, it essentially becomes irrelevant whether the ball comes in or goes out because it's going to be tough to play regardless. Big sideways movement isn't anywhere near as important against good players as introducing that split second of doubt in whether they should go back or forward, for example.

EDIT: @ Riggs.

 

[Riggins]

^^^^^^^ almost word-for-word what I was going to say.

McGrath had it right for many reasons but one in particular was how blokes like him put the ball in such a good spot, it essentially becomes irrelevant whether the ball comes in or goes out because it's going to be tough to play regardless. Big sideways movement isn't anywhere near as important against good players as introducing that split second of doubt in whether they should go back or forward, for example.

EDIT: @ Riggs.

Yeah the thing about seam movement is that it rarely goes very far. If guys get a long way forwards or back, it's not usually enough to beat the bat or get the edge and you can cover it pretty comfortably. It's why taller blokes, all other things being equal, are usually harder to face. Because of the steeper bounce that length is in a more dangerous spot and I guess it's a bit bigger.

 

[Red]

I'm a bit of a medium pace dobbler.

My standard ball just swings away, but I always feel like if I face the seam on an angle toward leg slip and it stays relatively upright on the way down, it's likely to hit the seam on an angle that'll jag the ball back in to the batsman's pads.

 

[straw man]

I tend to think that good bowlers with good seam position do have some control over which side of the seam will hit the dirt and therefore which way the ball will move. Makes sense that if the axis of rotation is slightly off perpendicular one way or the other then the ball will predictably move in a certain direction. Since others have brought up their own hack bowling, I too find when I try to bowl outswing the seam position often comes out such that the ball seams in (gently) to the batsman. I know this is Outswing: You're Doing It Wrong, but I get this result fairly consistently. So it makes sense to me that someone who has mastered the art of bowling could use this deliberately to their advantage.

However there are certainly other times or other bowlers who make no attempt to control which way the ball may seam and are happy to leave it to chance. Peter Siddle does this sometimes. Holds the ball at a slight angle and then rips his fingers down the back of the ball (not quite along the axis of the seam). Seam comes out a little scrambled and has a fairly good chance to move one way our the other when it pitches, though i find it hard to believe he knows which way it will move and the batsman sure as hell doesn't either.

 

[smash84]

I think good bowlers generally do have an idea which way the ball will seam but how much is something that they probably don't have an idea about

 

[OverratedSanity]

I tend to think that good bowlers with good seam position do have some control over which side of the seam will hit the dirt and therefore which way the ball will move. Makes sense that if the axis of rotation is slightly off perpendicular one way or the other then the ball will predictably move in a certain direction. Since others have brought up their own hack bowling, I too find when I try to bowl outswing the seam position often comes out such that the ball seams in (gently) to the batsman. I know this is Outswing: You're Doing It Wrong, but I get this result fairly consistently. So it makes sense to me that someone who has mastered the art of bowling could use this deliberately to their advantage.

However there are certainly other times or other bowlers who make no attempt to control which way the ball may seam and are happy to leave it to chance. Peter Siddle does this sometimes. Holds the ball at a slight angle and then rips his fingers down the back of the ball (not quite along the axis of the seam). Seam comes out a little scrambled and has a fairly good chance to move one way our the other when it pitches, though i find it hard to believe he knows which way it will move and the batsman sure as hell doesn't either.

This is what I have a hard time buying. Swing is something which the bowler intends and has full control over which way it'll go because of the seam's angle at the point of delivery. But seam movement off the deck depends on the seam's angle when the ball lands on the pitch or just before. Are you saying that bowlers know what the angle of the seam will be when it LANDS, around 15 yards away? That's just extremely difficult to do imo