Cricket Player Manager
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 52
Like Tree6Likes

Thread: Seam movement - Random or not?

  1. #31
    Hall of Fame Member Son Of Coco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Brisbane, Australia
    Posts
    17,229
    Quote Originally Posted by Maximas View Post
    I knew what I was doing - and that was trying to randomize it
    Were you successful?
    "What is this what is this who is this guy shouting what is this going on in here?" - CP. (re: psxpro)

    R.I.P Craigos, you were a champion bloke. One of the best

    R.I.P Fardin 'Bob' Qayyumi

    Member of the Church of the Holy Glenn McGrath

    "How about you do something contstructive in this forum for once and not fill the forum with ****. You offer nothing." - theegyptian.

  2. #32
    International Captain Maximas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Footmarks
    Posts
    6,657
    absolutely, never had any clue when or which way it would move, would aim on a length just outside off, sometimes got the outside edge, sometimes went through the gate, should never have started bowling spin
    RIP Phillip Hughes (1988-2014)

  3. #33
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Top_Cat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Adelaide, South Australia
    Posts
    23,299
    Quote Originally Posted by GuyFromLancs View Post
    If seem movement was random, then we'd all be as good Glen McGrath
    Nah you still wouldn't because you wouldn't be putting it the right areas as often as he did.

    As R!ggs said, not totally random, not totally controllable either. The McGraridor has said so himself.
    The Colourphonics

    Bandcamp
    Twitderp

  4. #34
    Global Moderator Prince EWS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Moving to Somalia
    Posts
    44,197
    Yeah I'm largely with SoC, Hurricane and Top_Cat with this one.

    Some (or even a lot) of predominantly seam bowlers just send most of their deliveries down attempting to get a bolt upright seam. If they bowl good areas and there's something in the wicket then when the ball lands ever so fractionally on the left or the right of the middle of the seam then it deck in or away, threatening both edges. This "random" seam movement is effective because it's easily repeatable and literally impossible for the batsman to pick out of the hand or before the ball lands. Philander is currently the best exponent of this type of bowling, but the likes of Asif, Clark and Pollock had a bit of a variation on this with a natural seam "wobble". It was the same premise essentially but with their natural actions the seam wouldn't stay entirely upright and this probably contributed to their greater movement as it gave them more exaggerated angles while still hitting the seam every delivery.

    However, there is definitely a way to control the direction of your seam movement if you so desire. If you release the ball for an outswinger or an inswinger and it doesn't go in the air but the seam is in still in place when the ball pitches, then it will go that way off the deck anyway. This method gives bowlers more control over which way the ball is moving but is also much easier for the batsman to read and harder to land on a consistently good line because the ball will often go in the air first.
    Last edited by Prince EWS; 05-11-2013 at 05:55 AM.
    ~ Cribbertarian ~

    Rejecting 'analysis by checklist' and 'skill absolutism' since Dec '09

    Quote Originally Posted by John Singleton
    Recognition of Property Rights in material objects is the recognition of a manís right to exist; his right to pursue his own goals in his own manner at his own discretion with what is rightfully his to command. Just as the Right to Life is the right to the property of oneís own person, so the right to own material products is the right to sustain oneís life and to keep the results of oneís own efforts.



  5. #35
    International Vice-Captain Riggins's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    The Prince
    Posts
    4,905
    Quote Originally Posted by Prince EWS View Post

    However, there is definitely a way to control the direction of your seam movement if you so desire. If you release the ball for an outswinger or an inswinger and it doesn't go in the air but the seam is in still in place when the ball pitches, then it will go that way off the deck anyway. This method gives bowlers more control over which way the ball is moving but is also much easier for the batsman to read and harder to land on a consistently good line because the ball will often go in the air first.
    Some guys find that it goes almost exclusively the other way, particularly when it's not swinging. i.e. Try to bowl and inswinger, doesn't swing, tends to be the one that nips away.

    I guess the sort of movement you get depends on your method of trying to achieve the swing in the first place, whether it's by pointing the seam in the swing direction or more by tilting the ball on it's axis.

    **** knows. Bottom line is it's a pretty inexact science at least in my experience.
    The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament.

  6. #36
    International Vice-Captain kyear2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    w.i
    Posts
    4,265
    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Cat View Post
    Nah you still wouldn't because you wouldn't be putting it the right areas as often as he did.

    As R!ggs said, not totally random, not totally controllable either. The McGraridor has said so himself.
    Heard Holding say once that no bowler can say for sure what the ball is going to do when they let it go. Of course skill is required, but the ball sometimes does what it wants to do.

    Key to success, put it in the right spots and good things will happen regardless.
    Aus. XI
    Simpson^ | Hayden | Bradman | Chappell^ | Ponting | Border* | Gilchrist+ | Davidson3 | Warne4^ | Lillee1 | McGrath2


    W.I. XI
    Greenidge | Hunte | Richards^ | Headley* | Lara^ | Sobers5^ | Walcott+ | Marshall1 | Ambrose2 | Holding3 | Garner4

    S.A. XI
    Richards^ | Smith*^ | Amla | Pollock | Kallis5^ | Nourse | Cameron+ | Procter3 | Steyn1 | Tayfield4 | Donald2

    Eng. XI
    Hobbs | Hutton*^ | Hammond^ | Compton | Barrington | Botham5^ | Knott | Trueman1 | Laker4 | Larwood2 | Barnes3

  7. #37
    Hall of Fame Member Goughy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    still scratching around in the same old hole
    Posts
    15,233
    Quote Originally Posted by smalishah84 View Post
    I think good bowlers generally do have an idea which way the ball will seam but how much is something that they probably don't have an idea about
    I think they have a general idea based on experience and knowing how the ball typically comes out of their hand but unless they are bowling a leg or off cutter then I don't think they know what a specific ball will do.
    If I only just posted the above post, please wait 5 mins before replying as there is bound to be edits

    West Robham Rabid Wolves Caedere lemma quod eat lemma

    Happy Birthday! (easier than using Birthday threads)

    Email and MSN- Goughy at cricketmail dot net

  8. #38
    International Captain OverratedSanity's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Chennai, India
    Posts
    5,344
    Quote Originally Posted by Prince EWS View Post
    Yeah I'm largely with SoC, Hurricane and Top_Cat with this one.

    Some (or even a lot) of predominantly seam bowlers just send most of their deliveries down attempting to get a bolt upright seam. If they bowl good areas and there's something in the wicket then when the ball lands ever so fractionally on the left or the right of the middle of the seam then it deck in or away, threatening both edges. This "random" seam movement is effective because it's easily repeatable and literally impossible for the batsman to pick out of the hand or before the ball lands. Philander is currently the best exponent of this type of bowling, but the likes of Asif, Clark and Pollock had a bit of a variation on this with a natural seam "wobble". It was the same premise essentially but with their natural actions the seam wouldn't stay entirely upright and this probably contributed to their greater movement as it gave them more exaggerated angles while still hitting the seam every delivery.

    However, there is definitely a way to control the direction of your seam movement if you so desire. If you release the ball for an outswinger or an inswinger and it doesn't go in the air but the seam is in still in place when the ball pitches, then it will go that way off the deck anyway. This method gives bowlers more control over which way the ball is moving but is also much easier for the batsman to read and harder to land on a consistently good line because the ball will often go in the air first.
    The bonded part is definitely interesting. Never knew that's why so many bowlers bowled with a wobbly seam. I'm an idiot.

    On point, then, if an outswinger generally seam's away, and an inswinger seams back in, does that mean that those jaffas we get which swing in and straighten away off the seam(like Anderson, Broad to Clarke in the Ashes ) are essentially flukes? I'm now convinced by the responses here that a quality bowler with proper seam presentation knows generally which way it'll move off the deck. But swinging it in and moving it out off the seam is surely something which few intend right?

  9. #39
    Global Moderator Prince EWS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Moving to Somalia
    Posts
    44,197
    Quote Originally Posted by OverratedSanity View Post
    The bonded part is definitely interesting. Never knew that's why so many bowlers bowled with a wobbly seam. I'm an idiot.
    Yeah if you have a completely rubbish scrambled seam presentation then you won't be hitting the seam in the right place at all with a lot of your deliveries, but if you have a bit of a natural wobble where it's largely upright but tilts in each direction before pitching, then you'll still hit the seam every ball but give yourself more movement a lot of the time. That was part of what made Pollock, Asif and Clark such good seam bowlers; the main factors were accuracy and bounce though as seam bowling more than anything else is about bowling the right line.

    On point, then, if an outswinger generally seam's away, and an inswinger seams back in, does that mean that those jaffas we get which swing in and straighten away off the seam(like Anderson, Broad to Clarke in the Ashes ) are essentially flukes? I'm now convinced by the responses here that a quality bowler with proper seam presentation knows generally which way it'll move off the deck. But swinging it in and moving it out off the seam is surely something which few intend right?
    As Riggins pointed out, some bowlers naturally will move the ball off the deck in the opposite direction to their natural swing because they - probably unwittingly - roll their fingers down the side of the ball ever so slightly at release. They accidentally bowl little cutters sometimes when attempting to swing the thing. But yeah, I highly doubt any bowler thinks at the of his mark "I'm going to swing this one in from off off to middle but then have to straight back down the line and clip off"; there's a massive luck component in those kind of jaffas. It's a bit like the natural variation of a spinner though; you still have to present the seam correctly and hit your areas so it's still very much skill-based.
    Last edited by Prince EWS; 06-11-2013 at 12:42 AM.
    hendrix likes this.

  10. #40
    State 12th Man Flametree's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    788
    I'm pretty sure Ewen Chatfield said he just tried to get it to hit the seam on a good line and length, and what happened after than was beyond his (and hopefully the batsmen's) control.

    I'm equally sure that Richard Hadlee would have disagreed with this (though as an earlier poster mentioned, much of his "seam" movement was really late swing which seemed to increase after pitching)

  11. #41
    International Coach Hurricane's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Don't be jealous of the Georgie Pie super smash
    Posts
    10,532
    Quote Originally Posted by Flametree View Post
    I'm pretty sure Ewen Chatfield said he just tried to get it to hit the seam on a good line and length, and what happened after than was beyond his (and hopefully the batsmen's) control.
    Indeed I noted that in my post. He reckoned if he didn't know which way it was going then the batsman definitely couldn't know.

    That comes from his autobiography by the way which I take it you have read?
    Quote Originally Posted by HeathDavisSpeed View Post
    I got great enjoyment in going to the game and shouting "WHY THE **** ISN'T THIS GAME BEING PLAYED AT THE BASIN?!>!?!?" to reasonably significant cheers from the sparse crowd
    Proudly against the bring back Bennett movement since he is injury prone and won't last 5 days.

  12. #42
    State 12th Man Flametree's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    788
    Sorry, I just skimmed earlier posts. No, I haven't read his autobiography, might have heard a commentator quoting it.

  13. #43
    International Regular harsh.ag's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    India
    Posts
    3,096
    I remember reading about Ambrose that he bowled with a seam position constantly fluctuating between the 5 0' clock and the 7 o'clock angle in the air, and the precise angle of it hitting the deck was unknown to him, though of course he bowled it right at the off-stump to make the batsman play at it. I guess McGrath has to be the one with the most control on the seam. Also, because Ambrose was faster than McGrath. Plus, I don't really what happens if the seam and the swing conflict each other. Anybody know?

  14. #44
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Top_Cat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Adelaide, South Australia
    Posts
    23,299
    I'm no magician but have bowled the occasional ball which swerved on way in the air and moved the other on pitching. I never full control over it (or was close, tbh) but found it was more likely when I wasn't going for big swing, just point the seam slightly in the direction you want to swing and let the deck do the rest. Was obviously much more likely on a cloudy day with something in the deck too.

  15. #45
    International Captain Maximas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Footmarks
    Posts
    6,657
    Yeah, once or twice I reckon I got a slight away swinger to cut back in after pitching and hit off stump, made me look like genius.

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast


Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Swing and Seam
    By Agent Nationaux in forum Cricket Chat
    Replies: 59
    Last Post: 20-08-2011, 05:08 AM
  2. Season 8 Trades and Movement
    By Mr Mxyzptlk in forum CW Development League
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 17-02-2005, 05:07 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •