***Official*** West Indies in New Zealand 2013/14

[hendrix]

Just a word on Milne..the lad looks decent but like Tino has proven just having pace doesn't get you far...

Yeah, this has been mentioned by a lot of people, but we've got these videos to prove that he's been working on both inswing and outswing. Not quite ready yet, but there are certainly moves to make sure that he's no Tino:

Yeah Milne was far from gun-barrel straight with the new white ball in Sri Lanka.

 

[hendrix]

doesn't let me post more than one video per post so here's the outswing one:

Yeah that does ring true to me I think. There's 'stock outswing experimentation day' -

 

[wellAlbidarned]

Yeah, this has been mentioned by a lot of people, but we've got these videos to prove that he's been working on both inswing and outswing. Not quite ready yet, but there are certainly moves to make sure that he's no Tino:

Tino's problem isn't movement, he has good seam release and gets nice nip when he doesn't bowl halfway down. Tino's problem is bowling with patience to a plan which he has never ever been able to do.

 

[Bahnz]

Just a word on Milne..the lad looks decent but like Tino has proven just having pace doesn't get you far...the commentators were talking like the lad was 18 or something...so i was surprised to learn he's infact 21 and will be 22 in April...which means he's only four or so months younger than Holder..and the difference in experience between them is quite big right now..

The reason for Milne's lack of experience is that he's had a lot of injury problems over the last few years. Nothing career threatening, but lots of little things that have conspired to keep him off the park. The fact that he managed only 8 first class matches in his first 4 domestic seasons is indicative of the problems that he's had. The most pleasing aspect of his efforts this season is that even though he's bowled poorly at times, he's stayed fit while playing quite a lot of cricket.

 

[hendrix]

The reason for Milne's lack of experience is that he's had a lot of injury problems over the last few years. Nothing career threatening, but lots of little things that have conspired to keep him off the park. The fact that he managed only 8 first class matches in his first 4 domestic seasons is indicative of the problems that he's had. The most pleasing aspect of his cricket this season is that even though he's bowled poorly at times, he's stayed fit while playing quite a lot of cricket.

Yeah, there was one first class match in which he bowled the most number of overs from either side. He didn't pick up a huge amount of wickets but his economy was decent and the fact that he was able to bowl those longs spells was very encouraging.

Obviously he's nowhere near the bowler that Holder is right now but he's the type of bowler we need in our attack in the medium term. West Indies probably need a Holder type bowler considering they have plenty of pace, but they need to drop Sammy before that happens...

 

[Bahnz]

Yeah, ideal WI team going forward:

Gayle (if he can actually be arsed to put the effort in to get back to where he was a couple of years ago, otherwise Powell)
Edwards
Lil' Bravo
Samuels
Chanders
DJ Bravo (c)
Ramdin
Rampaul (if he can lose his spare tire...otherwise Best)
Holder
Roach
Narine

Would give NZ a serious fight later in the year.

 

[hendrix]

Not sure if Dwayne is good enough to bat at 6, but yeah they do need a 5th bowling option. Deonarine was pretty poor with the bat but it remains to be seen if DJ will be any better.

 

[Bahnz]

Yeah, but DJ is also a captain, which means if you bring him into the side you can dump Sammy. I don't think his batting is any worse than Deonarines. I know it was only one innings, but he was brilliant at Hamilton and his bowling is actually quite handy in the right conditions.

 

[hendrix]

Yeah, but DJ is also a captain, which means if you bring him into the side you can dump Sammy. I don't think his batting is any worse than Deonarines. I know it was only one innings, but he was brilliant at Hamilton and his bowling is actually quite handy in the right conditions.

true, but without Sammy batting at 8 there's a big risk in playing guys like Deonarine or DJ. I suppose Ramdin's good form alleviates that a little.

If Gayle were fully fit he could be the part timer and Ramdin would just take over captaincy, but yeah, pretty sure Gayle CBF.

 

[Bahnz]

WI are in a similar position to where we are. They just don't have good enough batsmen to consistenly win games through scoreboard pressure, so they have to go on the attack and look to bowl teams out for low totals. I reckon Bravo can make a serious contribution to that goal without really weakening the batting. Sammy makes handy contributions from time to time, but he's very much a Southee-style slogger and he's not going to be involved in many match-saving/winning partnerships.

 

[WindieWeathers]

WI are in a similar position to where we are. They just don't have good enough batsmen to consistenly win games through scoreboard pressure, so they have to go on the attack and look to bowl teams out for low totals. I reckon Bravo can make a serious contribution to that goal without really weakening the batting. Sammy makes handy contributions from time to time, but he's very much a Southee-style slogger and he's not going to be involved in many match-saving/winning partnerships.

The batting is a strange one...in India recently we had several good starts and then fell away. But in truth in the first test we only played five batsmen because "captain Sammy" had to play...and in the second one Deonarine came in but the confidence of the side was on the floor by then.

In NZ we managed to reach over 300 in two of the three tests...which isn't bad when you consider the madness that was going on...no Gayle, Bravo missed the last test due to the conflict with Sammy, Kraigg missed the first two tests...Samuels was carrying a wrist injury etc..

This first class season coming up should really see some new talent emerge..Leon Johnson, Asad Fudadin and Jonathan Carter have all done well for the A-team recently while Andre Fletcher has thrown his name into the hat aswell...

As for the bowling...well when we have our best side out there we've got one of the better attacks in the game imo...Roach is world class...while Holder is looking like he could be a massive talent...the third pacer position will be up for grabs...if Rampaul stays fit it's his but time is running out for him and there's so very good prospects like Miguel Cummings, Marlon Richards, Delorn Johnson and Ronsford Beaton who are waiting to snatch his place.

Talking of Milne and "pace"..we got a kid who can touch 160 named Ray Jordan...only 18 and is set to debut for Winwards...hopefully Milne can stay injury free and we'll see if he can start perfoming in the four day game aswell...the test will be when he's been out on the field for a long time and the ball is old...he'll need to be able to out-think the batsman...that's how you'll know he can go far.

 

[Bahnz]

Kraigg missed the first two tests...

Hopefully Milne can stay injury free and we'll see if he can start perfoming in the four day game as well...the test will be when he's been out on the field for a long time and the ball is old...he'll need to be able to out-think the batsman...that's how you'll know he can go far.

I know he only played in one test, but what I saw of Brathwaite wasn't particularly impressive. Playing on what was probably the most West Indian of the three surfaces, he struggled with bounce in the first innings and played with a cavernous gap between bat and pad - his dismissal in the 2nd innings was truly awful. WI are better off sticking with Edwards until Brathwaite can tighten up. And Samuels can't just rely on the excuse that he had a wrist injury. His feet were stuck in concrete for the entire series and he's not going to start making runs again until he sorts that out.

Agree fully on Milne, and the early signs aren't particularly flash. Still, he can't ask for a better mentor than Bond and both Southee and Boult are clever bowlers too so at least he's got good people around him.

 

[hendrix]

And Samuels can't just rely on the excuse that he had a wrist injury. His feet were stuck in concrete for the entire series and he's not going to start making runs again until he sorts that out.

He's always played like this, even when he had his monster 2012 season.

TBH, he just looks way down in confidence and perhaps lacking a touch of motivation. Not sure whether that means he's completely shot yet or whether he'll find the desire again.

 

[WindieWeathers]

Guys!!..Samuels actually had to have surgery as confirmed HERE...he even had a recent interview on jamaican radio where he admitted he couldn't play certain shots because of the pain. Lets remember in 2012 he went to England and dominated...and no disrespect to NZ but that was a better attack than Boult and Southee. We'll see what happens when he turns out for Jamaica in the four day comp in a few months...he'll need to show us his class otherwise his place will be in doubt.

As for Kraigg...well the lad is only 21 and was playing his FIRST game in NZ..no warm up match or anything...to get 40 odd in the first innings was decent imo...and i truly believe if he's persisted with he can be another chanders...in the last 18 months he's probably been the best domestic batsmen in the caribbean for Barbados and then the A-team..hence his average has shot up to near 40 after it was in the low 30s for a spell.

Edwards isn't an opener so that's a none starter for me...it's either Kraigg and Gayle or Powell and Gayle...unless Barath has a storming season for Trinidad then he would certainly be in contention.

This year we've got NZ and then Bangledash at home...imo thats the time we must give our young talent like Brathwaite and Holder a chance while also letting newer players like Edwards settle in even more.

 

[Prince EWS]

.in the last 18 months he's probably been the best domestic batsmen in the caribbean

Nah bro, Devon Smith.

 

[Dan]

I think the problem with Brathwaite right now is that he's not quite Test quality, but he's too good for FC level. Caught in a Phil Hughes-like position at the moment. I can't see a reason why he won't go on to be a very good Test match batsman though - what he's achieved at his age is quite remarkable.

Samuels has always struck me as a guy who makes Test runs in spite of his technique, not because of it. Seems like an all-or-nothing type player; the highs will be extremely high, but when he gets in a rut/isn't 100%/just cbf, he's going to be very mediocre because he doesn't have the technique to fall back on. And based on what I saw of his attitude in the BBL, I'm not entirely certain that he's going to be around the WI setup for a long time before he goes down the Gayle route.

At the moment, only Shiv and Samuels in God Mode are batsmen who would actually strike fear into Test attacks. Against the rest, you feel either like they'll get themselves out inexplicably after making a start, or aren't in the business of taking a game away from you. Darren Bravo is slowly gaining a reputation, thanks to the NZ tour, but there's no feeling of consistent danger from the entirety of the batting line-up. Also the tail starting at 6 was a bit of a problem (though Ramdin has improved out-of-sight with the bat).

From Bahnz's XI, would it be an option to bring in Pollard as VC under Ramdin for a few series, see if he can make it as a batsman bowling a few handy overs, and groom him for captaincy? From the little I saw of him the the CPL, he looked like he had a decent cricketing brain, and his FC record isn't bad (and let's be honest, the competition of Narsingh 'my off spin is more useful' Deonarine or Dwayne 'how long until I break again and only play T20 for two years' Bravo.

 

[Kippax]

Boundaries and Dismissals (Dndn Day 1) - YouTube
Boundaries and Dismissals (Dndn Day 2) - YouTube
Boundaries and Dismissals (Dndn Day 3) - YouTube
Boundaries and Dismissals (Dndn Day 4) - YouTube
Boundaries and Dismissals (Dndn Day 5) - YouTube

Boundaries and Dismissals (Wgtn Day 1) - YouTube
Boundaries and Dismissals (Wgtn Day 2) - YouTube
Boundaries and Dismissals (Wgtn Day 3) - YouTube

(Hmtn Day 1) - YouTube
(Hmtn Day 2) - YouTube
(Hmtn Day 3) - YouTube
(Hmtn Day 4) - YouTube

 

[WindieWeathers]

Nah bro, Devon Smith.

LOL not for the A-team aswell my friend

No but honesly Smith did have a very god year but he's in the past now...Kraigg is the future and hopefully he'll have another cracking season ahead of the next test series..At home i'd expect him to do well against NZ and Bangledash tbh.

 

[Prince EWS]

LOL not for the A-team aswell my friend

A-team cricket isn't "domestic cricket" though, technically.

 

[Beamer]

Well Gayle and Bravo have signed Retainer contracts for the first time in years, so that's a good sign that they will commit properly to test cricket.

My XI for the First Test against New Zealand in the Caribbean, if we had to make a decision and everyone was fully fit, would be:

Gayle
Braithwaite/Powell/Barath (whoever is in form)
Edwards
Bravo
Chanderpaul
Samuels
Ramdin (c)
Holder
Narine
Rampaul
Roach

Reserves = Spare Opening batsman, Dwayne Bravo

I don't want us to just repeat the mistakes of the past and have a non-performing all-rounder who we have to play even if he is stinking up the place. We've had that with Sammy for too long and although Bravo is a better cricketer (IMO anyway), I don't think he is good enough to walk back in to the test side as captain. He has to earn that right and perform properly when he returns to the playing XI. Samuels would bat at 6 for me because that is where he did so well in England and also it is more suited to his flat footed technique.

Another thing I would like them to try but they won't is Gayle batting at 6 to destroy tiring attacks. If Pollard plays this domestic season and scores runs, I'd like to see them get him into the squad.