Had to step away from the forum for a while to collect my thoughts!!, i'm bitter and when i' bitter i'm not a good poster. All credit to NZ thouh they've done the job in style...and for me that's a series win for you right there...so well done.
From our perspective well you can read back this thread and you'll see that we saw this coming...it still makes me sick to my stomach thinking about how our selectors have pretty much assured our demise with their complete and utter disregard for common sense and logical thinking. The Sammy situation is just one of many things that is poisoning our cricket!!..in the whole bloody world we are the only side who has a captain who isn't good enough to make the team..when we won six tests in a row it was down to individual brilliance by our best players such as Roach, Rampaul, Chanders, Bravo, Samuels, Narine etc that got us through. We won DESPITE of Sammy..not because of him...but the tougher the conditions you play in the more his incompetence stands out..and you can't win tests with ten players for long.
Then we have the board who somehow agreed to allow half our side to miss the warm up game in order to play ODI's in india!!..it was a shambles from the very start and that has een reflected in the field..i can take one or two dropped catches..it happens despite being very annoying to see...BUT SEVEN? this tells me Gibbo has lost all control of whats going on..infact in a recn interview he said "there's only so much you can tell the players"..to me that's not the action of a top coach!!..and i hope his position is looked at after this series is done..and if the selection panel and the captain aren't fired then for me we're finished!!..we might aswell just pack it in.
I must admit seeing kiwi fans celebrating (which is perfectly acceptable) is stirring the pot for me!!..my mind is already on June next year and i'm glad NZ will be the first test series we play after this shambles!!..as it will give us an opportunity to set the record straight. ..hopefully the best team will be on the park then and we will see if NZ can deal with our conditions this time. There's no way on earth we fans will accept defeat like this at home..the players know better.
By then i expect to see a different side!!..Gayle may return as much as i don't want him to, Roach and Rampaul sould also be back while middle order batsmen like Fudadin, Carter and Leon Johnson just might make a case for themselves.
Beamer said they haven't scored tons for the A-team but that's not accurate actually as Carter got a ton in India while Fudadin and Johnson go tons vs Sri-lanka at home!!..Fudadin was also impressive in India and should have had a ton having been left standing alone on 86 not out in one of games...all three of them started their careers off slowly but are improving with each game so next year could be a big year for them...Same thing happened with Kirk Edwards until he really stepped up a few years ago.
With the pacers i fully expect Cummins to make his debut next year!!..he would have been perfect for these NZ conditions as he can move the ball both ways but the selectors were too dumb to see that..also expect Holder and Beaton to do well too.
Last edited by WindieWeathers; 15-12-2013 at 08:11 PM.
Maybe i'm naive or it's just wishful thinking but despite the mess we've seen from this series i don't see NZ surviving our spinners in our conditions!!..Shilly has a 10fer vs Australia at home while Narine tormented the NZ batsmen the last time they visited us!!...and when you also have Roach and Rampaul to deal with!!..who imo are every bit as effective as Southee and Boult!!..then the story should look a lot different this time..whatever the case it should make interesting viewing..
WW can you post your ratings of every member in each XI so far. Would love your opinions on both you guys and ours.
I'd do the same but since I've been working I've only caught around 3-4 hours so far. Have thankfully managed to catch Boult's 5fer, Taylor's 100 and 200 in the first game, and Bravo raising the bat for the double. Haven't felt too robbed of my cricket watching so far.
Saw an interview with Ian Bishop tonight and now even him have come around to the fact that Sammy is a drag on the entire team as he is not a Test standard #3 seamer.
Sammy though is not our only promlem. Tino and Gabriel are not test standard either, and if they were our only or best (no pun intended) options it would be understandaable, but they are not and Cummins in particular has so much potential and was accustomed to the conditions in India for the A tour that it would have made perfect sense and he would have been a handful in NZ conditions. Kirk looks solid and should be placed at No. 3 when the opener situation is resloved with Bravo moving to 4, Chanderpaul at 5 and Samuels at 6. Jonathan Carter also looks a good prospect but has to improve his consistency at home first. Once Roach and Ravi are fit and well then a bowling attack of Roach, Cummins, Rampaul and Shillingford with be a huge improvement over this disaster of an attack currently on display.
Hutton | Hobbs | Bradman* | Richards^ | Tendulkar | Sobers5^ | Gilchrist+ | Khan3 | Marshall1 | Warne4^ | McGrath2
Sutcliffe | Gavaskar* | Headley | Chappell^ | Lara^ | Kallis5^ | Knott+ | Hadlee3 | Ambrose2 | Lillee1 | Muralitharan4
Greenidge | Richards^ | Ponting^ | Pollock | Hammond^ | Worrell5* | Waite+ | Akram3 | Steyn1 | Holding2 | O'Reilly4
Morris | Simpson^ | Sangakkara | Weekes^ | Border*^ | Walcott+ | Faulkner5 | Laker4 | Trueman1 | Garner3 | Donald2
a) NZ's batsmen are much better at playing spin than they were 2 years ago. They've gone through tours against very good spin bowling sides on the subcontinent and have had moderate success. There's also the fact that Shillingford may be neutered by not being able to bowl his doosra, and Sunil Narine hasn't played enough recently to have any form going into it. It will be a challenge, but it's not insurmountable.
b) I agree that Roach in particular is a very talented bowler, but over the past 2 years Southee and Boult have consistently been one of the best new ball attacks going around - they've run through England, India and Sri Lanka, all in unfavourable conditions for fast bowling. Roach has the potential to be excellent and Rampaul can be a consistent bowler but they haven't actually put together those numbers lately - through either fitness or non-selection. So I still think you'd have to say that the pace bowling battle is advantage NZ, for the time being.
Roach, Rampaul, Narine and Shillingford definitely has a nice look to it though.
Is Fidel Edwards crook again?
Also what happened to Andre Russell? Couldn't he bowl 3rd?
The bottom line is in the caribbean we've got the clear spin advantage and i'd expect that to play a huge role in the series...like it did last time.
Why in the world would you not bring Edwards along? Definitely a better bowler than Gabriel unless hes done something to himself again.
I personally think Best is a decent enough # 3 but have always felt the best WI pace attack would have Roach, Rampaul and Edwards in there.
Yeah I have a bit of a soft spot for Fidel. Good bowler with unflattering stats, IMO.
Fidel's stats tell a pretty accurate story about him. Perfectly acceptable strike-rate (58) but also an appaulling ER (close to 4). A decent wicket-taker who just offers too many 4 balls to be an effective spearhead. Would be an excellent 3rd seamer coming in behind an accurate and incisive new ball pair like Southee and Boult.
Last edited by Bahnz; 15-12-2013 at 09:14 PM.
Rutherford= a little rash to me!!..but can be dangerous if he gets going..i'd stick with him
Fultron= A weak link imo..has technical issues that he hasn't addressed from the england away series
Williamson= a good talent who always concerns me the longer he stays at the crease..needs to convert more 50s into 100s though
Taylor= having the time of his life right now..has batted very well indeed but the weakness of the attack he's facing leaves me wondering if this is just a one off?
Mccullum= got a good ton but i get the feeling he's on a downward curve?!!...might be totally wrong but he seems to be more cold than hot these days
Anderson= Not sure about him..on the face of it he looks tidy but he's finding ways to get himself out...his bowling is decent though.
Watling= an annoying little bugger..i could tell from the odi series we won in the caribbean last year that he'd be good for NZ..and he's in good form right now so you can't complain
Sodhi= i fear his batting more than his spin right now but he's still young so we'll see how he develops
Wagner= the weakest of the pacer attack imo..he's just a normal bowler who tries hard but no thrills.
Southee= he's stepped up big time over the last 12 months and is your best pacer by a margin imo
Boult= still learning and his performances in asia weren't that impressive but he's on fire now and that might take him to the next level.
Powell= has the same average as Gayle did after 19 tests!!..difference is Powell has two more tons than Chris did, for me in terms of skill he's better than Darren Bravo but he needs to work on his mental game.
Edwards= he's not an opener but he's done very well here, averages around 40 in tests and after what happened in England to perform in these conditions is a very good surprise and he should be our regular number 3 now.
Darren Bravo= disappointed in the last test but that 218 in the first one was top class and he's clearly gonna be our biggest hope for the next ten years or so
Samuels= totally out of form..has probably been our best batsman for the last 12 months so i won't go overboard but he needs to get into gear sooner rather than later!!..when on form he's pure class though.
Chanderpaul= been fantastic for us..still can make runs but one gets the feeling next year will be his last
Deonarine= complete waste of space where batting is concerned!!..this may be his last series
Ramdin= has averaged 40 in the last year or so but doesn't contribute when we really need it imo!!..i'm keen to see another keeper emerge and get given a go to be honest
Sammy= i've said all i have to say about his fraud!!..there will be hell to pay if he's still captain and still in the team after this series
Best= waste of time and never was any good!!..time to let him go now
Gabriel= regressed since his debut in england and in the most part has had a nigtmare since his return to test cricket...needs to go and dominate at domestic level first before stepping up again..but needless to say his stock has fallen in recent months.
Shillingford= disappointed in the main..but i know these conditions are tough for him so i won't judge him too harshly.
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