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***Official*** West Indies in New Zealand 2013/14

lockton2skipper

U19 Debutant
i really like Darren Sammy, but for the only way for him to be an effective test cricketer is as a batting allrounder, batting 7 and been 5th bowler, that means you need your wicketkeeper to be a front line batsman who can bat no 6 otherwise it just screws up the balance of the side, light on batting or light on bowling. i also think he'd make a really good county cricketer !
 
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Beamer

International Vice-Captain
i really like Darren Sammy, but for the only way for him to be an effective test cricketer is as a batting allrounder, batting 7 and been 5th bowler, that means you need your wicketkeeper to be a front line batsman who can bat no 6 otherwise it just screws up the balance of the side, light on batting or light on bowling. i also think he'd make a really good county cricketer !
And that is the crux of the matter. He is holding the development of our test side back by having a guaranteed place in the side. He's a good man and bleeds for the West Indies but he cannot continue as captain after this series. I'd have him in a test squad for greentops where he could be a decent enough 3rd seam option and boost the batting. But on most surfaces he screws up the balance of the side.

I've been thinking about the Test side I'd select right now if everyone was available:

Braithwaite
Powell (VC)
Bravo
Samuels
Chanderpaul
Gayle
Ramdin (C, WK)
Shillingford
Rampaul
Roach
Best

Reserves:

Kirk Edwards, Darren Sammy, Sunil Narine, Jason Holder,Sheldon Cotterell

- It's time to develop a new opening pair that will hopefully be around for a decade or more. Powell and Kraigg are the best two young openers we've got at the moment and they have been opening together since Under 15 days so they know each others games. I firmly believe Kraigg will be a much needed boost for our top order batting as he is so good at taking the shine of the new ball and he really occupies the crease Shiv style.

- I really like the idea of Gayle coming in at 6. As he gets older his hand-eye skills start to deteriorate he will get out cheaply often against fresh swing bowlers with the new ball. However, at number 6 he has the ability to destroy tiring bowlers, potentially get his eye in before the 2nd new ball and he can also provide some much needed experience in crisis situations. Hopefully his presence at 6 would mean Shiv is left stranded less often. Bravo, Samuels, Shiv and Gayle would make for an extremely strong and reliable middle order IMHO.

- I like Best as a 3rd pacer. When he returned to the team on the tour of England that was his role and he was very effective coming on after Roach and Rampaul had taken the new ball. He is not a new ball bowler and never will be. However, he is someone that will run in and bowl fast all day. He'll never stop trying and stays very fit.

- That team does have a long tail which is less than ideal but I think it's the best we can do at the moment. I reckon it's a pretty good side tbh, definitely mid ranking material and able to nick the odd test off the big sides here and there. To push it past that and really improve as a test side we'd have to find a 3rd seamer who can bat to sure up the lower order and moves the ball more than Tino (Jason Holder would be my guess) and an attacking wicket keeper batsman who can average between 35 and 40.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
I really like that side. Gayle at six makes a lot of sense. I think I'd try to get Deonarine in there but that's nothing more than bias really. It annoys me when he's left out for the diabolical 6/7 Ramdin/Sammy combination, but I couldn't argue too much with him being left out of that side. You'd probably have to make sure either Gayle or Samuels felt like bowling a bit to pull it off though.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
Furthermore, as much as I like to take the piss out of him, I really think it'd be awesome for West Indies cricket if Johnson Charles took his wicket keeping more seriously. He's looked tidy enough with the gloves in the one dayers, and while I wouldn't pick him in the Test team until he actually committed to the role and did it in all forms of domestic cricket, it could be a good option going forward. Certainly seems talented enough with the bat despite having such a god-awful domestic record.
 

Beamer

International Vice-Captain
Yeah agreed Gayle would probably have to get through a few overs of off spin if he batted regularly at 6. I don't think he'd mind that too much tbh.

As for Deo, I really like him as a cricketer and his off-spin is hugely underestimated, he is very effective. But he just hasn't put the runs on the board and has played some pretty poor shots recently. He has this test series to make an impact and if he manages a hundred or two he'll have earned his place in the side or the squad at the very least. I really hope he manages it as I like him a lot.
 

Beamer

International Vice-Captain
Furthermore, as much as I like to take the piss out of him, I really think it'd be awesome for West Indies cricket if Johnson Charles took his wicket keeping more seriously. He's looked tidy enough with the gloves in the one dayers, and while I wouldn't pick him in the Test team until he actually committed to the role and did it in all forms of domestic cricket, it could be a good option going forward. Certainly seems talented enough with the bat despite having such a god-awful domestic record.
There's a big debate about this on caribbeancricket.com at the moment. Most people are behind Ramdin until someone can put up the numbers in the 4-day competition (which is pretty much my position). One of the senior posters is adamant that Ramdin is behind all of the other sides keeper/bastman and it would be worth trying to convert an attacking batsman into a wicket keeper and slotting them into the test side.

He is advocating Johnson Charles or Andre Fletcher. Fletcher keeps for Windwards in the 4 day matches, Charles in List A. I really hope Fletcher scores big runs in the 4 day competition as I actually think he could be a very effective batsman at number 7 in tests. Until he has a 500 run + season averaging 50 or more I don't think it should be thought about.

Tbf to Ramdin he has been averaging over 40 in tests since his return to the side. If he keeps that up over the next year we might be ok anyway.
 
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BeeGee

International Captain
I would not work for NZC if you paid me one million dollars per annum. The organisation lacks integrity.
I am sorry you are facing a tough time in your office at the moment and sorry I reminded you of that (by accident as it was not my intent).
I am not going to justify my comments further as I have written enough posts explaining them already.

Cheers
Yeah, sorry mate. Your post touched a nerve and you didn't deserve my anger.
 

BeeGee

International Captain
...where as if Turner had talked privately behind the eyes of the media, improvements could be worked in, as NZ cricket would not be forced to defend itself.
This is where your argument falls down. Turner has said in the past that his concerns and suggestions submitted through official channels to the NZC have fallen on deaf ears. He's not the only former player/official to have had this happen to him.
 

WindieWeathers

International Regular
Lol sorry Beamer i have to diagree with that side man :D ..personally i think Gayle's interest in test cricket is at it's lowest ebb already...putting him down the order would just make it worse. I think it's high time we start promoting some of our younger batsmen..Kirk got a decent 59 in conditions that have been his boogyman in recent years..if he goes on to have a decent tour here then for me he should be a fixture in the side as we've all seen how good he is at home and in asian conditions.

As for Best!!..not for me bro, he's 30 odd now and still averaging over 40...he works hard and is very passionate but we NEED better bowlers than that...at home and in asia this would be my side..

Brathwaite (21)
Powell (23)
Edwards (29)
Darren Bravo (24)
Samuels (32)
Chanderpaul (39)
Ramdin (wk) (28)
Narine (25)
Shillingford (30)
Roach (25)
Rampaul (29)

Then when we need another pacer i'd pick from Cummins or Holder...unless Cotterrell has a blinders in the next two tests....looking at that side it's fairly balanced with experience and youth, and it would give our team a chance to develop together without losing too many players in the next three or four years (only shiv) ..

The wicket-keeper situation is interesting..Fletcher usually does well in the four day competition but either him or Charles are gonna have to step up and keep in the four day competition all the way through instead of just here and there..Charles is compelling..he clearly has all the shots but needs tobe more patient at the crease imo, while i've also been impressed with his glovework aswell.
 

Beamer

International Vice-Captain
I don't have an issue with one of the young pacers being chosen as a third seamer instead of Tino Best. Either that or Narine can play as a second spinner obviously. I just think that right now, we need a bit of stability somewhere and at least Tino tries hard all day, is extremely fit and has good pace. Like I said though, I'd have no problem with him not being in the side.

As for Gayle, there are simply too many advantages to having him in the side at 6 tbh. Unless he goes through a massive form slump or clearly states that he isn't interested in tests anymore, he should be in the side. He gives us so much more than Kirk (who will make for a pretty solid reserve batsman though).
 

WindieWeathers

International Regular
Beamer!!..Gayle hasn't even been in form though has he? he failed in bangledash, failed in india etc...he doesn't look interested anymore imo and i'd just keep him for odi and t20s tbh.
 

Beamer

International Vice-Captain
Beamer!!..Gayle hasn't even been in form though has he? he failed in bangledash, failed in india etc...he doesn't look interested anymore imo and i'd just keep him for odi and t20s tbh.
I think he's been failing as an opener for technique reasons against the new ball, not because he's not interested. He's too good to discard this early and we don't have the luxury of world class reserves. I say try him at 6 for the next two series. If he fails spectacularly, we move on. If he succeeds (as I really suspect he would against tiring bowlers) we will have a serious middle order on our hands.
 

straw man

Hall of Fame Member
Cricket | Paceman Brace For Green Grass at Basin... | Stuff.co.nz

Captain Brendon McCullum will be keen to retain the same bowling lineup if they haven't taken too much harm from Dunedin; while a fresh Doug Bracewell could be considered as a replacement for either Neil Wagner or legspinner Ish Sodhi, depending on how the pitch looks on match morning.
I can see the pitch is very green looking, I know we're talking about bounce and swing and seam movement.... but, call me sceptical, I mentally just cannot bring myself to believe this pitch will be anything other than another New Zealand road. We'll find out tomorrow I guess.
 

Kippax

Cricketer Of The Year
.
Craig McMillan was a notable passenger on the New Zealand team mini van as they arrived at the Basin Reserve for training, wearing team issue kit.

It wasn't a recall for the 55-test batsman, though, but an invitation from captain Brendon McCullum to join the team as batting coach for their test buildup this week in the absence of Bob Carter, who is attending a family wedding.

McMillan worked with McCullum on his batting when the skipper returned home early from Bangladesh, battling a serious back injury. McMillan was named in August as batting coach for Canterbury Cricket.

It is understood he will continue his Sky Television commentary duties for the second test against West Indies, which starts on Wednesday.
 

straw man

Hall of Fame Member
Need to ask Robelinda for a 'Craig McMillan brain explosion' video. Maybe he'll teach our batsmen how to copy Chanderpaul's stance but fail miserably?

Sarcastic I know, but god I used to find his batting SO FRUSTRATING.
 

Immenso

International Vice-Captain
I wasn't surprised, when McMillan commentating - when Redmond turned ball straight into hands of leg slip - that he called it unlucky, rather than falling for an obvious trap.

Definitely in the "that's the way I play" camp of batting approach. A god fit for this NZ team ..... No recent examples I can think of - of someone adjusting their natural game and scoring an unbeaten double ton?


Yes, I'm being bitchy as well. He did play late, and averaged 38 in test cricket, so I'm sure he knows a bit about batting .....
 
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hendrix

Hall of Fame Member
I wasn't surprised, when McMillan commentating - when Redmond turned ball straight into hands of leg slip - that he called it unlucky, rather than falling for an obvious trap.
I'd call that unlucky myself. He middled it.

Also, Sammy can only set that field because of Shillingford's doosra.
 

Mike5181

International Captain
I know good players don't necessarily make good coaches, and bad players don't necessarily make bad coaches either, but I always found it strange that a guy who averaged 16 in first-class cricket could be the batting coach of a test team.
 

BeeGee

International Captain
I can see the pitch is very green looking, I know we're talking about bounce and swing and seam movement.... but, call me sceptical, I mentally just cannot bring myself to believe this pitch will be anything other than another New Zealand road. We'll find out tomorrow I guess.
Yeah.

I remember statements like "I've never seen so much grass on a test wicket before" floating around before the Dunedin test. 1400 runs later...
 

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