A spirited defence of Mr Flintoff

[NasserFan207]

Funny, I really rated Flintoff as a batsman for a while. Then he literally stopped scoring runs, and just kept getting bowled/out lbw.

Regardless, I think every side on the planet would kill for him today, even though he was sadly plagued by injury/too much boozing.

Not sure why everyone's having a go at Vaas, he was a quality cricketer too.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

I really liked Vaas and think Sri Lanka miss him more than Murali in a way as they have had no decent pacemen since yet have Herath as a spinner. He is vaastly underrated on here. Comfortably the best pace bowler that they have had and one of the best and most reliable to come from Asia.

 

[salman85]

Vaas was not quite up there with the greatest in the world, and not one who had the charisma to pull in crowds, but one who would get the job done quietly and go unnoticed. Pretty consistent player btw. Though i'm not sure if he qualifies comfortably as the best pace bowler Srilanka have produced.Malinga could be a serious contender for that award.

And coming to Flintoff, i always thought more than injuries, it was the immense weight of expectation placed on him early on his career that had an adverse impact on his overall career.I think he could have achieved much more had the next Botham sensationalism not been there.

 

[Furball]

I really liked Vaas and think Sri Lanka miss him more than Murali in a way as they have had no decent pacemen since yet have Herath as a spinner. He is vaastly underrated on here. Comfortably the best pace bowler that they have had and one of the best and most reliable to come from Asia.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Vaas was not quite up there with the greatest in the world, and not one who had the charisma to pull in crowds, but one who would get the job done quietly and go unnoticed. Pretty consistent player btw. Though i'm not sure if he qualifies comfortably as the best pace bowler Srilanka have produced.Malinga could be a serious contender for that award.

And coming to Flintoff, i always thought more than injuries, it was the immense weight of expectation placed on him early on his career that had an adverse impact on his overall career.I think he could have achieved much more had the next Botham sensationalism not been there.

Vaas, a left arm Asian version of Hoggard. No frills just a bloody dependable whole hearted bowler who rarely let you down. Obviously Vaas was 10 times the bat though.

 

[hendrix]

Vaas was not quite up there with the greatest in the world, and not one who had the charisma to pull in crowds, but one who would get the job done quietly and go unnoticed. Pretty consistent player btw. Though i'm not sure if he qualifies comfortably as the best pace bowler Srilanka have produced.Malinga could be a serious contender for that award.

No way. Malinga wasn't even that good before he gave away tests.

Love Vaasy.

 

[Maximas]

Care to show when this was done? Who said Vaaas was better than Flintoff?

saying it happened just makes him feel more beefy I think

 

[Red]

You could have put him in the Oz side at 8 if need be, but post 05 Ashes even they were obsessed with getting their own version (Watson, Symonds).

.

Nice replacement for Gillespie I reckon.

Hayden
Langer
Ponting
Martyn
Clarke
Katich/Twatto/Symonds
Gilchrist
Flintoff
Warne
Lee
McGrath

 

[Andre]

Didn't win England enough matches to be considered a great.

Good bowler but didn't bowl the right length to knock teams over. Always looked good cause he'd beat the bat regularly but that was because he bowled a yard to short to get the edge (think Jason Gillespie). Great to look at balls zooming around but in this case the numbers don't lie, he didn't run through teams like the greats.

With the bat - good hitter through the line, but one of the worst players of spin and the moving ball going around.

His numbers were about right, he just happened to have a few really good series at the right time.

His Test career wasn't exactly a small sample size. Numbers aren't everything but they do give you a good indication.

 

[Top_Cat]

So much tr00f, even taking into account the talisman effect.

 

[Flem274*]

No he wouldn't but I would imagine any side in the world would have been strengthened by him 03-06. You could argue South Africa would have had no need for him but I'd have thought they'd have taken him at that point as a bowler alone.

You could have put him in the Oz side at 8 if need be, but post 05 Ashes even they were obsessed with getting their own version (Watson, Symonds).

You couldn't say that about Shakib or Vettori for ****'s sake, and yes Dong nobody actually said Vaas was a better all-rounder but the fact his name even came up shows how absurdly he is being rated.

Shakib would make every team in the world imo. He can bat in the top six or seven and is a world class spinner in his own right. He would play different roles for different teams (Australia or South Africa would play his as their spinner and put him at seven or eight, England would put him at seven with Prior at six) but he would make every team. He's going to have such a huge reputation when he's done. I'm pretty sure he's still in his mid twenties and he's a spinner so he could conceivably go on forever and ever.

 

[Top_Cat]

Said the same about Vettori and all he's done for the past 5 years is improve his batting.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Shakib would make every team in the world imo. He can bat in the top six or seven and is a world class spinner in his own right. He would play different roles for different teams (Australia or South Africa would play his as their spinner and put him at seven or eight, England would put him at seven with Prior at six) but he would make every team. He's going to have such a huge reputation when he's done. I'm pretty sure he's still in his mid twenties and he's a spinner so he could conceivably go on forever and ever.

If Shakib played for a nation that played more than 4 or 5 matches a year he'd be a cert for 300+ wickets and 5000+ runs. The guy is quality, shame Bangladesh can't find a couple of pacemen and they'd start doing a lot better.

 

[andyc]

Love me some Shakib. Your classic example though of what people often say about Hadlee when it comes to his wickets per game etc. - no one else is bloody doing it so he ends up with most of them.

 

[andyc]

Nice replacement for Gillespie I reckon.

Hayden
Langer
Ponting
Martyn
Clarke
Katich/Twatto/Symonds
Gilchrist
Flintoff
Warne
Lee
McGrath

In the 06/07 team which I mentioned originally with the bowling lineup of McGrath, Lee, Clark and Warne, the only bloke he'd potentially be replacing is Lee, but in terms of reliability fitness-wise in a four-man attack Lee would probably edge it.

 

[social]

In the 06/07 team which I mentioned originally with the bowling lineup of McGrath, Lee, Clark and Warne, the only bloke he'd potentially be replacing is Lee, but in terms of reliability fitness-wise in a four-man attack Lee would probably edge it.

Plus I cannot believe that anyone in their right mind would consider replacing Gillespie with Flintoff at any time other than a few months in 2005

Australia didn't need Fred's batting and Dizzy was several classes above him as a bowler