where would you rate herschelle gibbs as a batsmen?

[george]

In South Africa and against the rest of the world

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

That innings he played on Saturday was superb. So effortless with some top class stroke play. I think that he's top 10, but a gap (like the one between bat and pad) away from Ponting, Dravid, Lara and the like.

 

[Bazza]

Don't know who put him top 3 but would they like to back that bold vote up with a reason? I would say top 10 but not top 5.

 

[Tom Halsey]

George, I think.

 

[Neil Pickup]

Lara
Tendulkar
Ponting
Dravid
--
Vaughan
Gibbs
Hayden
Gilchrist
Martyn
Richardson
Steve Waugh
Kirsten
Laxman
Jayawardene
Inzamam
Thorpe
Fleming
A Flower
--
Sarwan
Youhana
Jayasuriya
Atapattu
Trescothick
Butcher
G Smith
Ganguly
Habibul
Kallis

Three broad groupings as I'm not bothering with definite splits between the layers, and yeah, I've probably forgotten a lot.

 

[gibbsnsmith]

I agree more or less with what Neil and Liam have said, Top 10 surely IMO. But is someitmes a bit inconsitent.

 

[PY]

Welcome to CW george. May you post your days away!!

I would rate Gibbs as about 9-10 in world, would be higher but he seems to get a bit of a head rush every couple of innings where he thinks he needs to cream every ball to the fence and gets out cheaply.

However, you can't fault his innings in England which I saw which were excellent. So, in summary, a quality player who has momentary lapses in concentration which if he survives, he is deadly.

 

[Mr. P]

Top 10 for sure, but confirming what Neil and Liam said, hes miles away from the run scoring machines (Dravid, Lara, Ponting and Hayden) and the runscoringmachineforeveryyearexceptthisyear. (SRT)

It is of my opinion anyway.

 

[iamdavid]

I agree totally with what Neil & Liam said

I reckon with a few less off days he could be even better , but thats just part of the way he plays.

Certainly among the top 5 as far as batsman I'd like to watch goes , but he'd be around 8 , 9 , 10 th best in the world ATM.

Better than his captain IMO.

 

[Richard]

We'll see.
Every one of Graeme's 4 averages is higher than Herschelle's. Yes, Herschelle's played more games, but Smith will play them eventually.
It truly amazes me that so many people can find such a large fault with someone who has scored so many runs.

 

[Richard]

Anyway, Neil had the right idea. No point trying to rank every player exactly - just make a grouping. Not sure I agree with every one in Neil's groups, but I agree with his placing of Gibbs, anyway.

 

[marc71178]

It truly amazes me that so many people can find such a large fault with someone who has scored so many runs.

But unless he corrects it he will not score as many runs in the future.

Just look at what happens when he's not bowled to on his pads.

Heck, during the English summer he was troubled on more than one occasion by Ashley Giles - now try telling me he's a great!

 

[Richard]

That quicker-ball was a good piece of bowling!
About Giles' best in the last 2 summers.
Personally, watching the innings he played against West Indies (and some parts of the Lord's and Edgbaston ones) I really would say he has it in him to develop his off-side strokes. His driving of Half-Volleys is fine, and you don't absolutely have to be able to drive on the up to be a great.
All Graeme needs to do, IMO, is to cut-out the likes of dismissal he suffered at Kingsmeade and also the one he would have suffered at Lord's had Hussain taken the catch. Then he will be scoring double-centuries practically every game.
Because no-one, not no-how, can bowl good length just outside off all session. And even if they could, if you just leave it every time, eventually any bowler (even Pollock) will get bored, or impatient, and bowl somewhere else.
What I don't think people give Graeme enough credit for is his leaving. It's not yet perfect (but then again, who's is?) but it's better than most IMO.

 

[Neil Pickup]

Personally, watching the innings he played against West Indies (and some parts of the Lord's and Edgbaston ones) I really would say he has it in him to develop his off-side strokes. His driving of Half-Volleys is fine, and you don't absolutely have to be able to drive on the up to be a great.

To improve his off-side play by a significant extent would require a change of grip. This is what contributes towards making him so strong on the pads.

 

[CDAK]

Lara
Tendulkar
Ponting
.......
.....
Butcher
G Smith
Ganguly
Habibul
Kallis

Three broad groupings as I'm not bothering with definite splits between the layers, and yeah, I've probably forgotten a lot.

Good rating Niel, but I feel Attappattu & Kallis could have been few step ahead.

 

[krkode]

He's a very Hayden-esque batsman, if you ask me. Pure dominance when things go his way.

Although top 5 would be pushing it, somewhat, I think I would rate him in the top 10 with ease.

 

[Bazza]

I was just about to say he can be compared to Hayden - like I was trying to say in the Hayden thread, Smith has this perceived weakness which suggests there is a way to foil him, but he always seems to succeed and contrives to fill his boots (I know Smith hasn't played much international cricket but he's made a bloody good start - if he continues he will rival Hayden and every other batsman).

Bar one.

 

[Anil]

the runscoringmachineforeveryyearexceptthisyear. (SRT)

Looks like he is going to make up for it in 2004...

 

[Richard]

To improve his off-side play by a significant extent would require a change of grip. This is what contributes towards making him so strong on the pads.

Ever studied optimum grips? There are grips that allow you to play everywhere perfectly. I've got one. It helped get me from averaging 1 in 2000 to 42 (SR 123.4) in 2001. Didn't help much in subsequent years, but I'm still hoping.
It amazes me that every international batsman doesn't have the best grip available.
Of course, there are other influecing factors, like the strength and speed of elbow and wrist.

 

[Richard]

I was just about to say he can be compared to Hayden - like I was trying to say in the Hayden thread, Smith has this perceived weakness which suggests there is a way to foil him, but he always seems to succeed and contrives to fill his boots (I know Smith hasn't played much international cricket but he's made a bloody good start - if he continues he will rival Hayden and every other batsman).

Bar one.

Whom will never be rivalled, surely.
Even if someone came in and averaged 100 in a 100-Test career he would still not come close to Sir DGB for me.
Regarding Smith and Hayden, there are definate similarities in their play, stances, height, broadness of chest.
IMO, however, Hayden has two very pronounced weaknesses that will constantly enable you to get him out rather than simply restrict his scoring, being the inswinger and the short-ball. Smith clearly is nowhere near as good on the off-side as on the on, and he has been dismissed caught behind square 4 out of 4 this series, and cheaply 3 times out of the 4. But still, I think Hayden's is a much bigger weakness and I rate Smith much the better batsman.