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Thread: English off-season 13/14

  1. #46
    International 12th Man SeamUp's Avatar
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    Guys, hear Topley is going to UK for a scan on lower back for a suspected stress fracture. Would assume that answers it.

    Quite a few of our young tall fast bowlers have also gone down that route recently and we've seen Australia with their problems as well.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeamUp View Post
    Guys, hear Topley is going to UK for a scan on lower back for a suspected stress fracture. Would assume that answers it.

    Quite a few of our young tall fast bowlers have also gone down that route recently and we've seen Australia with their problems as well.
    Not sure he'd have made the lions squad anyway but still sad. That's him and Willey who've returned from Aus with back problems.

    Did a little research and Topley last season in county cricket(2013) bowled more overs than any seamer competing in domestic AUS, SA, NZ, IND 2012/13 season.

    From the start of the 2012 english season he has played a county season followed by an u19 world cup followed by a lions tour to aus, 2013 county season followed by performance squad trip to aus. The county season is brutal enough but on top of that all those other tours and you can see why he's lost some pace and had this problem in the back. Have to wonder about that kind of workload.

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    Whoever is 'managing' him needs a slap in that case.

  4. #49
    International 12th Man SeamUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theegyptian View Post
    Not sure he'd have made the lions squad anyway but still sad. That's him and Willey who've returned from Aus with back problems.

    Did a little research and Topley last season in county cricket(2013) bowled more overs than any seamer competing in domestic AUS, SA, NZ, IND 2012/13 season.

    From the start of the 2012 english season he has played a county season followed by an u19 world cup followed by a lions tour to aus, 2013 county season followed by performance squad trip to aus. The county season is brutal enough but on top of that all those other tours and you can see why he's lost some pace and had this problem in the back. Have to wonder about that kind of workload.
    That is pathetic management to say the least.

    I like young players playing a lot of cricket but like always there should be a balance.

    Possibly the ECB need to restructure the scheduling in County cricket. I remember when Matt Maynard was here he thought it needed looking into because he thought the SA domestic structure was the best he come across in it's scheduling and how it allowed time off and prep time for the different forms of the game.

    But in saying that, this was unique circumstances. No more u19 cricket for him etc but possibly also shouldn't have rushed him for England Lions cricket either.
    Last edited by SeamUp; 13-12-2013 at 01:18 PM.


  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeamUp View Post
    That is pathetic management to say the least.

    I like young players playing a lot of cricket but like always there should be a balance.

    Possibly the ECB need to restructure the scheduling in County cricket. I remember when Matt Maynard was here he thought it needed looking into because he thought the SA domestic structure was the best he come across in it's scheduling and how it allowed time off and prep time for the different forms of the game.

    But in saying that, this was unique circumstances. No more u19 cricket for him etc but possibly also shouldn't have rushed him for England Lions cricket either.
    yes it's too much for someone so young but I can see the necessity to give him the exposure to different conditions. Craig Overton also had a back stress fracture having played the u19 wc, lions tour then the start of the county season.

    Yes county cricket definitely needs restructuring but it's not happening any time soon. It's tough to rip up the county system given the history and the members and commitees are pretty ensconced so no-one is going to agree. Definitely needs less cricket, less teams, more time between games, better wickets.

  6. #51
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    Woakes as captain
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  7. #52
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    Yessss. So glad he isn't been completely forgotten. In English conditions he will be a good number 6/seam option for Sri Lankan tests. Especially if we are wanting to rest/have a look at some other players.

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    Not many movements this year to cover players moved,retired,released or temporay.Expect quiteness till the season starts Then some triallies get contracts,then mid year some signings as some counties suffer.
    Last edited by brockley; 16-12-2013 at 01:55 AM.

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    Monty got out Jason Roy today for Western Suburbs against East Suburbs in sydney grade cricket.

    Good runs for Billings, Rossington, Burns and Browne today also in Sydney, Dent in victoria.

    Wouldn't say any Englishmen is having an amazing time in grade cricket this winter. Most I'd say in the average to good range. Matt Dunn has done pretty well for Sturt in Adelaide. Kervezee has done quite well in Newcastle district but don't think the standard is that great there. James Taylor has done pretty well in WA although moreso in T20 than standard 2 day cricket.

    The big movements in and out of Derbyshire have continued this week. Krikken out as head coach, Stephen Moore in as batsman

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    Is Swann playing county cricket still next season?
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  11. #56
    Hall of Fame Member grecian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by morgieb View Post
    Is Swann playing county cricket still next season?
    It seems not, but he still seems interested in t-20 so maybe he'll play in that league, after all it's only 4 overs.
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  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by theegyptian View Post
    Two games in and Onions yet to bowl for the Dolphins due to rain. Scotty Borthwick made a ton on debut for Northern District in sydney grade cricket.

    England are in kind of a meh position with regards to spin bowlers now. Kerrigan is going to have to do a lot to regain any kind of trust from England. So once Swann goes and given Monty is pushing on it's gonna be interesting to say the least.

    The other options at present aren't exactly great. Rafiq has looked decent but has struggled with injuries and his action in the last couple of years. Ravi Patel has done well for Middlesex but he's basically played 1/2 a season. But otherwise there haven't really been any others worthy of even mentioning and that is a massive worry.

    With that in mind I was thinking about possible permutation says in 3 or 4 years time. I like the look of Borthwick as a batsman. His runs this season were excellent- tough wickets and high pressure situations. But it's one season. The same with Moeen Ali. They both need more consistent batting performances.

    But if say down the line they were both churning out the runs England may be left in a situation where they had to resort to a Borthwick/Ali spin bowling attack.

    Cook, Root, Borthwick, Ali, Taylor, Ballance, Bairstow, Stokes, Broad, Finn, Topley


    Obviously that's a 5 year down the road path with a lot of ifs and buts. But the fact is the spin bowling talent coming through at the moment looks awful. England might be forced into something like the team above due to lack of alternative spin bowling options. Neither Ali or Borthwick are good enough bowlers at present and almost certainly neither will ever be test class spinners but if there is no-else in a few years time they may be forced down this route.
    This grows closer. No other spinner and they may be forced into this kind of team in England/SA/NZ/AUS tests. Borthwick still someway away from this though. Needed Swann to make a couple more years really if you're think solely of the current spin bowling crop.

  13. #58
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    Borthwick is average with both bat and ball. Would get murdered at test level IMO. Ali an interesting one, would be worth the gamble IMO.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by 91Jmay View Post
    Borthwick is average with both bat and ball. Would get murdered at test level IMO. Ali an interesting one, would be worth the gamble IMO.
    Borthwick really impressed me as a top order batsmen this past year for someone who had rarely batted in the top order and was playing in challenging(both the wicket and match situation) conditions. It was one season so yes there is still a long way to go before he proves anything. But I see him now as more of a top order batsman; his bowling has regressed. From what I saw, listened and read about his batting he left very well but also looked to be aggresive against anything off base. Not amazingly talented as a strokeplayer or power hitter but that isn't exactly required as an English top order batsmen. He's also a very good fielder.

    I put Ali at 4 in that team and he bats 3 at worcestershire but realistically I think he's more a 6 at international level. Worcester is a doghouse slow and low wicket and I'd be worried about him at 3 or 4 for England.

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    Yeah, he is a good stroke-player so fits well at 6. We could be looking at the South Africa model (average spinner, a batsmen who can bowl capable spin and a pace attack) in the future. Except we'd have a dog**** pace attack, weak batting line up and a marginally better spinner. Back to the test doldrums we go.

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