English off-season 13/14

[SeamUp]

England u19 squad was selected for the triangular against Pakistan and UAE in Dubai, Abu Dhabi and Sharjah where the u19 world cup is hosted next year.

Ben Duckett (Northants) & Kishen Velani (Essex) weren't selected due to not meeting fitness requirements. Two of the most experienced players and almost nailed on to go to the WC. Not sure if they will now.

Squad is Yorkie dominated.

Dominic Sibley (18) Surrey
Jonny Tattersall (19) Yorkshire
Harry Finch (18) Sussex
Robert Jones (18) Lancashire
Ryan Higgins (18) Middlesex
Will Rhodes (18) Yorkshire
Ed Barnard (18) Worcestershire
Joe Clarke (17) Worcestershire
Lewis McManus (19) Hampshire
Miles Hammond (17) Gloucestershire
Kyle Carver (17) Yorkshire
Rob Sayer (18) Leicestershire
Matthew Fisher (16) Yorkshire
Josh Shaw (17) Yorkshire
Luke Wood (18) Notts
Jack Winslade (18) Surrey

 

[theegyptian]

Less than 4 months to go till the good stuff kicks off. Fixtures list is pretty bad. Huge amount of first class games in the first couple of months of the season and then basically just a lot of t20 and 50 over cricket the second half. Not gonna develop many spinners for test cricket like that. At least with 50 over cricket back and in a block in the second half of the season the players will have some decent preparation for the WC.

 

[theegyptian]

England Lions Squad for some 4 day games in Sri Lanka:
http://www.ecb.co.uk/news/articles/lions-squad-face-sri-lanka-named

Chris Woakes (Warwickshire) *Capt
Moeen Ali (Worcestershire)
Jonny Bairstow (Yorkshire)
Scott Borthwick (Durham)
Varun Chopra (Warwickshire)
Ben Foakes (Essex)
James Harris (Middlesex)
Chris Jordan (Sussex)
Simon Kerrigan (Lancashire)
Alex Lees (Yorkshire)
Tymal Mills (Essex)
James Overton (Somerset)
Sam Robson (Middlesex)
James Taylor (Nottinghamshire)
James Vince (Hampshire)

Guess the most interesting things are.

Bairstow in. Yorkshire will be moaning at that for sure I'd guess and you have to feel some sympathy having trawled around as England's 12th man in overseas test for the last couple of years.

No Jos Buttler. Playing in the big bash(but will only clash with this tour if his team makes the semis) but still a little surprising. Foakes continues to get good backing.

Woakes captain. Seems like they're giving everyone a chance at captaincy in the lions games which makes sense as a lot of them won't get experience at their counties because they're away with England a decent amount.

First callup to lions squad for Robson. Done well in Aus(which isn't a great surprise given his experience there) with the performance squad so deserved place.

Mills but no Topley. This isn't particularly surprising but the narrative of the story is interesting.

Both Left arm seamers at Essex. Mills really hasn't done much at county level but hasn't been given a massive chance but has always impressed around England setup. Topley on the other hand has done really well for Essex. Took the most wickets over the three formats of any English bowler this past season at 86. The problem being his bowling seems to have regressed/reverted to an english type medium pace swinger. Since the u19 world cup where he bowled with decent pace and aggresion he seems to have lost 2 or 3mph, bowling in one day cricket he bowls a lot of cutters with the keeper standing upto the stumps. He was with the lions tour to aus last winter and the performance squad this winter and he's been a peripheral figure with little impact. Conversely Mills has stood out when with the lions or performance squad. It's just disappointing to see the way Topley has gone from someone who looked to have a lot of potential(6'7'', good pace(82-85mph, natural swing bowler) to play international cricket to someone who may not be good enough. Of course Topley is still 19 so he's still got time but it just seems the constant grind of county cricket has taken something away from him.

From the outside it would look like Topley is been treated unfairly and that Mills is being given preferential treatment or whatever.

County Championship Topley 48 wickets @28.41 Mills 6 @66.33
YB40 Topley 17 wickets @ 25.58 Mills 10 wickets @17.3
20 over Topley 21 wickets @ 13.23 Mills 0 wickets for 30 runs

But Topley just looks like he puts the ball on the spot at 80mph and swings it in these days. It works in England on second division wickets - it ain't really gonna work anywhere else. The wickets and the massive amount of cricket just takes the aggresion out of a lot of the bowlers. MIlls looks the much better bet international bet right now which is amazing given the stats above. Until there is less cricket in England I feel like players like Topley will revert to this generic English type bowler which isn't going to really cut it outside of England,

 

[steds]

Having not gotten the opportunity to see Topley last year, I'll take your word for it. But I was massively impressed by him in the u19 World Cup. Really want to see him succeed.

 

[theegyptian]

Having not gotten the opportunity to see Topley last year, I'll take your word for it. But I was massively impressed by him in the u19 World Cup. Really want to see him succeed.

Yes look he's 19. He's still got a lot of time. And like you I was excited by his performance during that WC. It just seems from watching him a decent amount (but not extensive) he hasn't progressed in the manner you would have expected given the promise and the amount of wickets he's taken in the mean time. If anything he looks to have lost pace and doesn't use his height to intimidate batsmen.

Stuff like bowling cutters with the keeper up may be a good skill in isolation but if Topley is going to be the spearhead of a future england attack he's gonna need to do more than rocking up bowling at 80mph especially as he can't bat. Clearly ENgland want him to succed but his poor peformances with the lions and then perf squad in the last year in aus suggest he isn't quite as good as his figures suggest or that once his prodigious swing which he gets in English conditions isn't there he is a little pedestrian and lacks a little as a bowler at present.

Basically he's a fine bowler in English conditions right now but I'm just a little disappointed with his progression and feel he needs to work on how to get wickets when the ball doesn't swing in first class cricket. But again he's 19 ffs - I just hope he won't reach a comfort level in county cricket where he is capable of taking lots of wickets but his game doesn't progress in a way which will allow him to prosper at international cricket.

 

[SeamUp]

Guys, hear Topley is going to UK for a scan on lower back for a suspected stress fracture. Would assume that answers it.

Quite a few of our young tall fast bowlers have also gone down that route recently and we've seen Australia with their problems as well.

 

[theegyptian]

Guys, hear Topley is going to UK for a scan on lower back for a suspected stress fracture. Would assume that answers it.

Quite a few of our young tall fast bowlers have also gone down that route recently and we've seen Australia with their problems as well.

Not sure he'd have made the lions squad anyway but still sad. That's him and Willey who've returned from Aus with back problems.

Did a little research and Topley last season in county cricket(2013) bowled more overs than any seamer competing in domestic AUS, SA, NZ, IND 2012/13 season.

From the start of the 2012 english season he has played a county season followed by an u19 world cup followed by a lions tour to aus, 2013 county season followed by performance squad trip to aus. The county season is brutal enough but on top of that all those other tours and you can see why he's lost some pace and had this problem in the back. Have to wonder about that kind of workload.

 

[91Jmay]

Whoever is 'managing' him needs a slap in that case.

 

[SeamUp]

Not sure he'd have made the lions squad anyway but still sad. That's him and Willey who've returned from Aus with back problems.

Did a little research and Topley last season in county cricket(2013) bowled more overs than any seamer competing in domestic AUS, SA, NZ, IND 2012/13 season.

From the start of the 2012 english season he has played a county season followed by an u19 world cup followed by a lions tour to aus, 2013 county season followed by performance squad trip to aus. The county season is brutal enough but on top of that all those other tours and you can see why he's lost some pace and had this problem in the back. Have to wonder about that kind of workload.

That is pathetic management to say the least.

I like young players playing a lot of cricket but like always there should be a balance.

Possibly the ECB need to restructure the scheduling in County cricket. I remember when Matt Maynard was here he thought it needed looking into because he thought the SA domestic structure was the best he come across in it's scheduling and how it allowed time off and prep time for the different forms of the game.

But in saying that, this was unique circumstances. No more u19 cricket for him etc but possibly also shouldn't have rushed him for England Lions cricket either.

 

[theegyptian]

That is pathetic management to say the least.

I like young players playing a lot of cricket but like always there should be a balance.

Possibly the ECB need to restructure the scheduling in County cricket. I remember when Matt Maynard was here he thought it needed looking into because he thought the SA domestic structure was the best he come across in it's scheduling and how it allowed time off and prep time for the different forms of the game.

But in saying that, this was unique circumstances. No more u19 cricket for him etc but possibly also shouldn't have rushed him for England Lions cricket either.

yes it's too much for someone so young but I can see the necessity to give him the exposure to different conditions. Craig Overton also had a back stress fracture having played the u19 wc, lions tour then the start of the county season.

Yes county cricket definitely needs restructuring but it's not happening any time soon. It's tough to rip up the county system given the history and the members and commitees are pretty ensconced so no-one is going to agree. Definitely needs less cricket, less teams, more time between games, better wickets.

 

[Dan]

Woakes as captain

 

[91Jmay]

Yessss. So glad he isn't been completely forgotten. In English conditions he will be a good number 6/seam option for Sri Lankan tests. Especially if we are wanting to rest/have a look at some other players.

 

[brockley]

Not many movements this year to cover players moved,retired,released or temporay.Expect quiteness till the season starts Then some triallies get contracts,then mid year some signings as some counties suffer.

 

[theegyptian]

Monty got out Jason Roy today for Western Suburbs against East Suburbs in sydney grade cricket.

Good runs for Billings, Rossington, Burns and Browne today also in Sydney, Dent in victoria.

Wouldn't say any Englishmen is having an amazing time in grade cricket this winter. Most I'd say in the average to good range. Matt Dunn has done pretty well for Sturt in Adelaide. Kervezee has done quite well in Newcastle district but don't think the standard is that great there. James Taylor has done pretty well in WA although moreso in T20 than standard 2 day cricket.

The big movements in and out of Derbyshire have continued this week. Krikken out as head coach, Stephen Moore in as batsman

 

[morgieb]

Is Swann playing county cricket still next season?

 

[grecian]

Is Swann playing county cricket still next season?

It seems not, but he still seems interested in t-20 so maybe he'll play in that league, after all it's only 4 overs.

 

[theegyptian]

Two games in and Onions yet to bowl for the Dolphins due to rain. Scotty Borthwick made a ton on debut for Northern District in sydney grade cricket.

England are in kind of a meh position with regards to spin bowlers now. Kerrigan is going to have to do a lot to regain any kind of trust from England. So once Swann goes and given Monty is pushing on it's gonna be interesting to say the least.

The other options at present aren't exactly great. Rafiq has looked decent but has struggled with injuries and his action in the last couple of years. Ravi Patel has done well for Middlesex but he's basically played 1/2 a season. But otherwise there haven't really been any others worthy of even mentioning and that is a massive worry.

With that in mind I was thinking about possible permutation says in 3 or 4 years time. I like the look of Borthwick as a batsman. His runs this season were excellent- tough wickets and high pressure situations. But it's one season. The same with Moeen Ali. They both need more consistent batting performances.

But if say down the line they were both churning out the runs England may be left in a situation where they had to resort to a Borthwick/Ali spin bowling attack.

Cook, Root, Borthwick, Ali, Taylor, Ballance, Bairstow, Stokes, Broad, Finn, Topley

Obviously that's a 5 year down the road path with a lot of ifs and buts. But the fact is the spin bowling talent coming through at the moment looks awful. England might be forced into something like the team above due to lack of alternative spin bowling options. Neither Ali or Borthwick are good enough bowlers at present and almost certainly neither will ever be test class spinners but if there is no-else in a few years time they may be forced down this route.

This grows closer. No other spinner and they may be forced into this kind of team in England/SA/NZ/AUS tests. Borthwick still someway away from this though. Needed Swann to make a couple more years really if you're think solely of the current spin bowling crop.

 

[91Jmay]

Borthwick is average with both bat and ball. Would get murdered at test level IMO. Ali an interesting one, would be worth the gamble IMO.

 

[theegyptian]

Borthwick is average with both bat and ball. Would get murdered at test level IMO. Ali an interesting one, would be worth the gamble IMO.

Borthwick really impressed me as a top order batsmen this past year for someone who had rarely batted in the top order and was playing in challenging(both the wicket and match situation) conditions. It was one season so yes there is still a long way to go before he proves anything. But I see him now as more of a top order batsman; his bowling has regressed. From what I saw, listened and read about his batting he left very well but also looked to be aggresive against anything off base. Not amazingly talented as a strokeplayer or power hitter but that isn't exactly required as an English top order batsmen. He's also a very good fielder.

I put Ali at 4 in that team and he bats 3 at worcestershire but realistically I think he's more a 6 at international level. Worcester is a doghouse slow and low wicket and I'd be worried about him at 3 or 4 for England.

 

[91Jmay]

Yeah, he is a good stroke-player so fits well at 6. We could be looking at the South Africa model (average spinner, a batsmen who can bowl capable spin and a pace attack) in the future. Except we'd have a dog**** pace attack, weak batting line up and a marginally better spinner. Back to the test doldrums we go.