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Quotas to be reintroduced for South Africa

Marius

International Debutant
CSA likely to introduce quota for black African players

Firdose Moonda

October 2, 2013

On the same day South Africa's domestic season gets underway, CSA will vote on a proposal which could change the way it looks. At their October 11 meeting, a decision will be taken on introducing a quota which will require franchise teams to play two black African players and provincial teams to field three. A senior official expects the motion to be approved.

The idea was one of many which came up at CSA's transformation indaba (conference) - the first one addressing racial issues they held in a decade. ESPNcricinfo has learned it was overwhelmingly welcomed at the meeting in the face of South Africa's poor record of Africanisation in the 22 years post readmission.

"Everybody agreed that we have failed in terms of black African players and that drastic measures must be taken," Norman Arendse, CSA's lead independent director who is also chair of the transformation committee, told ESPNcricinfo.

Since 1991, only five black African players have represented South Africa at Test level even though black Africans comprise almost 80% of the country's population. Makhaya Ntini is the only one who has played more than 100 Tests, with his number of caps coming in at 101, while Mfuneko Ngam, Thami Tsolekile, Monde Zondeki and Lonwabo Tsotsobe have appeared in 17 matches all told.

By contrast, 11 mixed-race players have donned the whites and three of Asian origin, including Pakistani-born legspinner Imran Tahir. Arendse said those cricketers, including the likes of Vernon Philander and Hashim Amla, illustrate the success of targets.

South Africa introduced a quota system in 1998 to address the racial discrimination caused by the Apartheid system. The stipulation then was that every team had to field four players of colour - a term which encompasses black Africans, mixed-race people and those of Asian descent. It was officially removed in 2007.

While Arendse hailed its achievements, he also explained that it shed light on the true nature of racial segregation in South Africa. "It showed us the stark disparity caused by Apartheid and how the black African community often had it a lot worse," he said.

"There are two obvious reasons why we don't see as many black African players coming through. One is the socio-economic conditions facing black African youngsters compared to their counterparts, especially as cricket is still very much a middle-class game. And the other is downright racism. There is enough black African talent but it seems to get lost."

A recent report presented to CSA contained information that most black African players give up the game between the under-19 and provincial level, at an age at which, if they are not contracted, will need to find jobs. Arendse's other point was also underlined in the report as it revealed when black African players do get into the system, they are often further sidelined. Only two black African players turned out in more than 80% of their franchises' games last season and when they did, they bowled less overs and batted lower down than players of other races.

CSA is hopeful this will change if the proposal is approved next Friday, the same day the domestic one-day cup gets underway. Although the ruling, if passed, will not apply for the first round of matches, it could be implemented immediately thereafter and may raise concerns about the practicality of such a decision for franchises.

In reality, all franchises except the Cobras would be able to meet the requirement immediately. The Cobras only have one black African on their books, left-arm spinner Siya Simetu. The Dolphins and Knights have each contracted two black African players, the Titans three, the Warriors four and the Lions have the most, at seven.

Sources close to the franchise system said the possibility of some franchises loaning out their black African players to other teams in order to meet the quota also exists. "Sometimes a player won't get game time at his franchise because there will be too much competition for places," the insider said. "It's important that we ensure the players get adequate game time so there would be nothing wrong in them being sent to play for other teams."

That may defeat the purpose of unearthing and nurturing black talent and Arendse seems hopeful that will not happen. "What we need is for franchises to have four or six black African players in their set-up so that there is internal competition for places. One of the criticisms of the quota system is that it guarantees a player a place in the team but if there are more than the required number, you will be able to counter that," he said. "What we've also seen is that before long, the minimum is far exceeded and that is what we need to build a base."

The lack of black African players has stood out most starkly in the Test team, which has not fielded a black African since January 2011. Arendse said the national selectors mentioned they get criticised for not picking black African players but their hands are tied because "they only have a handful to choose from". So CSA has taken it on themselves to "broaden the pool of black African players".

Cricket is not the only sport to be mulling quotas as a means to advance the cause of players of colour. In August, SA Rugby announced they would introduce a quota from next season which will require teams in the Vodacom Cup, the second-tier domestic tournament, to have seven players of colour in their 22-man squad and field at least five in the starting XV.

Firdose Moonda is ESPNcricinfo's South Africa correspondent
South Africa Cricket News: CSA likely to introduce quota for black African players | ESPN Cricinfo

I see the logic, but quotas are almost always a bad idea.

Also, how will we decide if someone is coloured or black? Will we use apartheid-era classifications?

And in a place like the Western Cape, where the African population is relatively small, they will have to 'import' black players from other provinces, standing in the way of real home grown Western Cape talent.

It is a tricky situation though.
 

GuyFromLancs

State Vice-Captain
South Africa Cricket News: CSA likely to introduce quota for black African players | ESPN Cricinfo

I see the logic, but quotas are almost always a bad idea.

Also, how will we decide if someone is coloured or black? Will we use apartheid-era classifications?

And in a place like the Western Cape, where the African population is relatively small, they will have to 'import' black players from other provinces, standing in the way of real home grown Western Cape talent.

It is a tricky situation though.
I think it's a bad idea.

First up, we all know that cricket ability doesn't discriminate on race. And all quotas will do is raise eyebrows that some players wouldn't be good enough if selected on merit. Select purely on merit and the rest will take care of itself.
 

jan

State Vice-Captain
Quotas in sports = bad idea.
SA and its cricket are in a very specific situation though...
 

Marius

International Debutant
While I don't believe it applies for every such situation, I'll just leave this here
View attachment 20780
Blacks make up nearly 80% of South Africa's population.

Hardly a minority.

However, I am against quotas at the franchise level and at the national level.

They should be handled very carefully lower down.

In addition, this has to go hand-in-hand with ensuring that there are facilities in disadvantaged areas, so people who want to play cricket can do so.
 

Goughy

Hall of Fame Member
Also, how will we decide if someone is coloured or black? Will we use apartheid-era classifications?.
It will be done on surnames and self identification.

Quotas have never gone away really. This just replaces the old PDP 'targets' with those for Black African players.
 

Marius

International Debutant
It will be done on surnames and self identification.

Quotas have never gone away really. This just replaces the old PDP 'targets' with those for Black African players.
Which just shows how ridiculous it is.

We have to go back to Apartheid classifications to decide who is coloured and black.

And coloured people were also discriminated against under apartheid, I don't know why black people should get 'preferential' treatment with regard to quotas.

Moonda also gets a bit tired with her banging on about how racist South Africa and South African cricket is.

Telford Vice (who is her partner I believe) is not much better.
 

Agent Nationaux

International Coach
Hence the reason why guys like KP and Trott go overseas. Extremely unfair to then criticise them or complain that England is pinching players.
 

akilana

International 12th Man
Hence the reason why guys like KP and Trott go overseas. Extremely unfair to then criticise them or complain that England is pinching players.
Had they stayed in SA, they would have made it to the top. AB, Smith, Steyn, Morkel etc have shown that if you are good enough you are going to make it to the top.
 

The Battlers Prince

International Vice-Captain
I think quotas isn't a good idea. For SA I think it could work if the economic divide wasn't so big between races. It may not happen quickly to produce plenty of coloured test cricketers, but its a good step forward.
 

theegyptian

International Vice-Captain
Had they stayed in SA, they would have made it to the top. AB, Smith, Steyn, Morkel etc have shown that if you are good enough you are going to make it to the top.
Really you think? KP was what a spinner wasn't he batting at 10 in his last first class game for Natal. Absolutely no guarantee that either Trott or KP especially would be anywhere as good as they have turned out.


Still a really difficult situation still in SA. Really don't want more of a drain on there resources by losing players to english cricket but that looks more likely as result of this.
 

JontyPanesar

U19 Vice-Captain
I think the only way to solve this problem is from the bottom-up. Invest in developing cricket for poorer communities. I wouldn't want to be in a fringe black player's shoes, having his merit questioned every single second. This is also symptomatic of a much greater problem: SA has never bothered to invest in popularizing the game across the country (part of the reason they seem to be at the mercy of the bcci)
 

Flem274*

123/5
Well they lost Wagner due to the quota system. CSA asked him several times to come back iirc (Howsie might have supplied this info?) but he turned them down because he wanted to pay for a country where he was selected on merit.

When the likes of Ntini can play 100 tests I don't think you need a quota system. I can't see state sides excluding a player with a high ceiling due to being black these days, though I might be very mistaken, but the quality appears to be coming through. The lack of black players might be down to popularity more than anything - iirc there were stats a while back showing football and the like were huge amongst the black population?
 
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morgieb

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Well they lost Wagner due to the quota system. CSA asked him several times to come back iirc (Howsie might have supplied this info?) but he turned them down because he wanted to pay for a country where he was selected on merit.

When the likes of Ntini can play 100 tests I don't think you need a quota system. I can't see state sides excluding a player with a high ceiling due to being black these days, though I might be very mistaken, but the quality appears to be coming through. The lack of black players might be down to popularity more than anything - iirc there were stats a while back showing football and the like were huge amongst the black population?
IIRC pretty much the entire soccer team is ethnically African.
 

BoyBrumby

Englishman
IIRC pretty much the entire soccer team is ethnically African.
Natural justice would suggest at least two of the side should be either white, "Coloured" or of Asian origin if black Africans make up roughly 80% of the populace.

Maybe some kind of quota is in order?

#sledgehammersatire
 

fredfertang

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
There are many forms of discrimination, so should also be quotas based on disability and ***ual orientation, so all English sides might have to conform to the following

at least 1 white caucasian
1 Afro-caribbean
1 Asian
1 Black African
1 White African
1 East European
1 Chinese

Of which at least one would have to be Irish, one Scottish and one from West of Bristol

and at least one from a family in receipt of means-tested state benefits and one from a family not entitled to claim Child Benefit

and at least one who is registered disabled, one who is dyslexic, one who has learning difficulties and one who has spent time in one of her majesty's prisons as an inmate (rehabilitation don't you know!)

and at least one heterosexual, one homosexual and one transsexual

and at least one with a history of voting for each of the three main parties (but not Mr Farage's lot)

and at least one christian, one hindu, one muslim and one druid

oh and it will also be possible to accomodate the best cricketer, but not necessarily the second best as well, but then selection will be a much more skilled art, so all will be good

and of course that way equality of opportunity will be irrelevant, so we want have to bother with that one any more - just as well as it was hardly a vote winner anyway

and apparently David Cameron's father hated marmite, and you don't get more English than that, so no-one called Cameron to be selected nor, to be fair, anyone named Clegg or Milliband either
 

TheJediBrah

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I see the logic, but quotas are almost always a bad idea.

Also, how will we decide if someone is coloured or black? Will we use apartheid-era classifications?

And in a place like the Western Cape, where the African population is relatively small, they will have to 'import' black players from other provinces, standing in the way of real home grown Western Cape talent.

It is a tricky situation though.
Really? Because I don't. I can't see how any rational person could even entertain the idea for a moment without bursting into laughter at the pure stupidity.

Pick the best players. It's not rocket science. How do you think the players getting picked will feel? They (and everyone else) will be wondering if they were really good enough or just picked because of their race. That can eat at you.

And think of the poor white guy who is not being selected because of his race. If that's not racism in it's purest form then I don't know what is.

Disgraceful.
 

benchmark00

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God, the people who shoot off so half ****ed just don't understand the situation in South Africa.

Sporting success is such a small thing for the country when you compare it to the social issues it has gone through, and continue to go through.

Sport is a very powerful tool for the country to move forward. If that means sacrificing some success on the field in the short term for the greater good then so be it.
 

Dan

Hall of Fame Member
God, the people who shoot off so half ****ed just don't understand the situation in South Africa.

Sporting success is such a small thing for the country when you compare it to the social issues it has gone through, and continue to go through.

Sport is a very powerful tool for the country to move forward. If that means sacrificing some success on the field in the short term for the greater good then so be it.
Yeah, tending to lean towards this perspective in the debate. While quotas don't sit nicely as they fit alongside affirmative action in the "are we just changing who gets discriminated against and will it actually work" category, it is undoubtedly better than an entire majority segment of the South African population having no access to the game that (presumably, given the amount we discuss it) we all love and want to see people playing.

I don't think you can use a quota as a substitute for grassroots action, in that then it simply benefits the individual black players and not the population as a whole. But combined with action that makes the game more accessible to that ethnic group, providing role models to whom young kids in those groups/communities can relate in invaluable.

While yes, it disadvantages (arguably discriminates against) white players in the short-to-medium term, in the medium-to-long term this way forward is more likely to redress the prevailing inequalities than if FC selection was a pure meritocracy. They can't run on the hope of another Ntini emerging to (hopefully) appeal to the ethnic African community.

In this type of situation, there will never be a Pareto-optimal solution in the short-term. In the long run, maybe things would equalise if left alone, maybe they would not. But the acceptance that there isn't a perfect solution to boost ethnic African participation without putting white people at a disadvantage/undermining meritocracy in sport should not stop the attempt to redress the inequality in the long term.
 
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