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Retro Ashes - from 1990 onwards

GuyFromLancs

State Vice-Captain
I while ago I picked my England team from 1990 to today. Now, with one or two alterations, I propose to send it to War with the best Aussie team of the last 23 years.

England

1. Gooch
2. Trescothick
3. Atherton (C)
4. Pieterson
5. Thorpe
6. Stewart +
7. Flintoff
8. Swann
9. Gough
10. Caddick
11. Fraser

Now, I know this offends a degree of wisdom. But Warne, in his “100 of my best mates and some cricketers” book, said Athers would have made a great number 3 , had he been in a better team. Well here is that team!

I am a little bit conscious of the fact that Stewart batted better when not keeping. But I can't quite get around it. I like the feel of a Gooch-Tresco opening pair. And obviously I like the option of a 4-man pace attack (and a good one at that) to stick it up em. Flintoff and Gough providing the balls; Caddick and Fraser the not-balls-but-still-a-useful-body-part. And Swann is England’s best spinner of the era by a mile. I like the look of the strength in that top 4.


Aussies

1. Taylor (C)
2. Hayden
3. Ponting
4. Martyn
5. S. Waugh
6. Clarke
7. Gilchrist +
8. Warne
9. Gillespie
10. Hughes
11. McGrath

Not being an Aussie, I’m leaving myself open to abuse on this, but I really do think Martyn was better than Waugh Jnr, and Gilchrist edging out the purists’ choice of keeper - Healy.

Taylor gets the nod above Langer and Slater, Clarke for his last 3 years gets in above a few other options. Hughes, I felt I’d be leaving myself open to a bashing if I left out. Gillespie, despite ending his career (202 aside) like a soggy firework, gets the nod.

Punter, Waugh Snr, Warne and McGrath select themselves.

Predictions??
 

sumantra

U19 Cricketer
don't think you have selected the strongest possible English side though...Cook and Vaughn should have been there, since you have selected 3 openers, they could have been there along with Gooch. May be Gooch and Cook, Vaughn at 3...and Stewart at 6! I don't know about that, but Prior might just be a better choice at 6.

Your Australian selection seems better to me, I would have picked Slater in place of Taylor though...anyways, judging by the teams of your selection, it is a whitewash...who will be whitewashed? well... :)
 

The Battlers Prince

International Vice-Captain
Is this choosing a best Ashes side for eash country or the best English and Aussie side of the past 20 years. Eg. ME Waugh avg 50 against the poms, as opposed to Martyn averaging about 31 I think. For the Pom's I think Cook probably deserves a go.
 

Adders

Cricketer Of The Year
Not being an Aussie, I’m leaving myself open to abuse on this
Dunno about that. Your Aussie side looks pretty spot on to me but your England side is shocking!!

Do you have a particular dislike for our current team?? Cos they are the most successful of the period you are looking at yet you only find room for 2 of them in the side??

Cook, Anderson and Prior glaring omissions.
 

Red

The normal awards that everyone else has
Based on Eng v Aus in the time frame, Australia would be...

Langer
Hayden
D.Boon
M.Waugh
S.Waugh
M. Hussey
Gilchrist
Warne
Hughes
McDermott
McGrath


And England would be...

Gooch
Trott
KP
Ramps
Thorpe
Prior
Flintoff
Swann
Broad
Gough
Fraser

England is a bit unbalanced but they're the best performers.
 
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Top_Cat

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Hughes as in Merv? Off your rocker if you pick him over McDermott, especially since 1990.
 

watson

Banned
Off the top of my head;

England
01. Graham Gooch
02. Alec Stewart
03. Michael Vaughan*
04. Graham Thorpe
05. Kevin Pietersen
06. Andrew Flintoff
07. Matt Prior+
08. Graham Swann
09. Darren Gough
10. Gus Fraser
11. James Anderson

Note: Vaughan makes the team on the basis of his magnificent Ashes tour of 2002/03. Plus his captaincy is arrogant enough to get up the nose of the Aussie side. Cook is unlucky but Stewart's stack of runs as opener before he got stuck with keeping duties is too hard to ignore.

Australia
01. Matthew Hayden
02. Justin Langer
03. Ricky Ponting
04. Mark Waugh
05. Michael Clarke*
06. Steve Waugh
07. Adam Gilchrist+
08. Brett Lee
09. Shane Warne
10. Craig McDermott
11. Glenn McGrath
 
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Red

The normal awards that everyone else has
Hughes as in Merv? Off your rocker if you pick him over McDermott, especially since 1990.
Not sure whether you were replying to me or someone else, but I have Merv and MecDermott in there.
 

L Trumper

State Regular
Are we only taking ashes record into account, because Gooch was pretty terrible against AUS and should be nowhere near the side really. Open with Vaughan and Stewart with Trott at 3 would be ideal.
 

NUFAN

Y no Afghanistan flag
I think the team from GFL in the original post has too many mentally fragile Cricketers from England in it and is forgetting players who had success against Australia. One (or two) of Gough, Caddick and Fraser shouldn't be selected ahead of Anderson and/or Broad. Atherton shouldn't be there either.
 

hendrix

Hall of Fame Member
The Aussie team would thrash the English team even if you do get the selections right (Anderson>Caddick being a glaring one).

It's rather interesting that, despite the actual series wins over the past 20 years starting to even out for England, they still haven't produced anywhere near the quality of individual players that the early 2000s Aussies had. Well, not many teams would, tbh. Warne, McGrath, Ponting, Steve Waugh, Gilchrist were all time greats, and then you have exceptional players like Hayden, Langer, Gillespie, Lee etc.

England only tentatively have Pietersen and Cook as atgs. Even exceptional players like Anderson, Flintoff and Swann are still only really on the level of, say, Hayden.
 

Red

The normal awards that everyone else has
Are we only taking ashes record into account, because Gooch was pretty terrible against AUS and should be nowhere near the side really. Open with Vaughan and Stewart with Trott at 3 would be ideal.
In terms of tests played between Aus and Eng since 1991, Gooch has a better record than most. Vaughan a decent call, did well against Aust.
Maybe this...

Gooch
Vaughan
Trott
KP
Thorpe/Gower
Prior
Flintoff
Swann
Broad
Gough
Fraser

Flintoff hasn''t really done SFA apart from 2005, but he was pretty good in 2005.
 

HeathDavisSpeed

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Are we only taking ashes record into account, because Gooch was pretty terrible against AUS and should be nowhere near the side really. Open with Vaughan and Stewart with Trott at 3 would be ideal.
Gooch would be fine if Terry Alderman wasn't playing for Australia.
 

NUFAN

Y no Afghanistan flag
The Aussie team would thrash the English team even if you do get the selections right (Anderson>Caddick being a glaring one).
In Australia yes, but in England I don't think we would thrash them at all. We could still win but it would be a great series in England, IMO if you get the selections right.
 

adub

International Captain
For Australia I think Harris has done enough to earn the third paceman spot behind McGrath and Billy, just edging out Sarfraz for mine. Dizzy was a good 'un, but to me he'd be up against McDermott and Billy was a bit better. SCG McGill would be my twelfth man ready to come in and team up with Warne at the SCG or any other pitch that looks like it will turn. The series is just about done and won there before you get to the batting side. Just too much genuine wicket taking ability for the poms to cope with. Langer, Boon, both Waughs and Hussey had ridiculously good records against the poms in the timeframe. Not seeing Ponting or Clarke named looks strange obviously, but they both have had some pretty dire times to go against the times they've been brilliant. The other opener was a tougher call. Matty Elliot's one series was great, but not enough on its own, and Haydos clearly was good, but in the end Slater's 7 tons and 4 50s in just 20 tests get him the nod. With Gilly to follow at 7 the poms are going to be playing for draws from the first morning.

Langer
Slater
Boon
M Waugh
S Waugh (c)
Hussey
Gilchrist
Warne
Harris
McDermott
McGrath
McGill (12th)

For the Poms the batting seems pretty easy with really only Cook over Gooch and going for Freddie at 6 instead of putting him at 8 and playing Gower the only real points of contention I reckon. (Thorpe over Gower purely because Gower was at the end of his career by 90-91). For the bowling I was sorely tempted to go with Tremlett and/or Bresnan but they haven't played enough. But then to turn that thinking on it's head I couldn't leave Simon Jones out because I think he is the most beautiful pommy bowler I've seen. A real tragedy that he couldn't play more test cricket. Anderson can come straight in for him when he breaks down. Goughy is a must select for me and Gus Fraser edges Broad because he's more consistent. Prior and Stewart is a toss up. Coin came down for Matt.

Vaughan
Cook
Trott
Pietersen
Thorpe
Flintoff
Prior
Swann
Jones
Gough
Fraser
Gower (12th)

Australia to win 4-0.
 

sumantra

U19 Cricketer
Vaughan
Cook
Trott
Pietersen
Thorpe
Flintoff
Prior
Swann
Jones
Gough
Fraser
Gower (12th)

Australia to win 4-0.
This English batting side looks the strongest to me so far (not sure about the bowling part though)...still a 4-0? (where are you planning the series mate? can't see a 4-0 in English soil)
 

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