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Thread: Retro Ashes - from 1990 onwards

  1. #31
    State Regular GuyFromLancs's Avatar
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    Also, I agree that Broad has done enough now to get in. Although Fraser was by no means a disgraceful choice.

    I think that looks a pretty goddam good team now!
    World XI Since 1990 -

    1. Gooch 2. Dravid 3. Ponting 4. Tendulkar 5. Lara 6. Kallis 7. Gilchrist 8. Akram 9. Warne 10. Ambrose 11. McGrath

  2. #32
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    I am supprised no one has mentioned Allan Border. Also Bruce Reid (if fit) would be worth considering.


    1. Taylor (C) / Langer (with Border/Waugh/Warne as Captain)
    2. Hayden
    3. Ponting
    4. Border
    5. S. Waugh
    6. Clarke / Hussey
    7. Gilchrist +
    8. Warne
    9. Gillespie / McDermott
    10. Reid / Harris (not sure if I would want both in the same side)
    11. McGrath

    Also Alderman would be useful in England

  3. #33
    International Regular OverratedSanity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by watson View Post
    Not much between the bowling skills of Lee and Gillespie. But since Lee was a better hard hitting lower order batsman, and McGrath-Lee-Warne formed the most successful bowling TRIO in cricketing history, then I can't go past Lee;


    As usual, Anantha Narayanan's ridiculous stats blogs tell us nothing useful. The fact that Australia somehow won more games when Lee played with McWarne than when Gillespie dud with them can be down to a hundred different reasons. It doesn't make Lee the better bowler
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  4. #34
    International Regular OverratedSanity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adub View Post
    Yeah, but Broad is a ****.

    Seriously though you can make an argument for Broad, his batting is handy and when he gets it right with the ball he can be devastating. But Gus still has a better bowling record against much better batting than what Broad has had to play against. He and Goughy were lion hearted performers for England at a time when they were getting their arse's handed to them. Wouldn't die in ditch arguing for Jones and Fraser over Anderson and Broad, but I think the fact they're bowling to much weaker opposition makes the latter two look better than they actually are.
    Nah... Broad absolutely ripped apart probably the best Indian batting lineup ever. Apart from Dravid, no one had a clue against him that summer.
    The consistency argument is a valid one though... Fraser was never as horrible as Broad can be, but then Broad sometimes turns into Marshall on crack


  5. #35
    International Debutant adub's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OverratedSanity View Post
    Nah... Broad absolutely ripped apart probably the best Indian batting lineup ever. Apart from Dravid, no one had a clue against him that summer.
    The consistency argument is a valid one though... Fraser was never as horrible as Broad can be, but then Broad sometimes turns into Marshall on crack
    I think we're on pretty much the same page. With a five man bowling attack you can probably also make the case that you have cover for the days when Broad is poo, but I still prefer Gus. Just have a soft spot for good honest toilers who make the most of what they have over show ponies who should be better than they are (or at least more consistently good).

  6. #36
    International Coach flibbertyjibber's Avatar
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    So basically pick a majority of players who got flogged and ignore the winners then. Good plan.

  7. #37
    International Vice-Captain watson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OverratedSanity View Post
    As usual, Anantha Narayanan's ridiculous stats blogs tell us nothing useful. The fact that Australia somehow won more games when Lee played with McWarne than when Gillespie dud with them can be down to a hundred different reasons. It doesn't make Lee the better bowler
    I didn't say that Lee was the better bowler - 'Not much between the bowling skills of Lee and Gillespie' is what I said.

    Overall, I think that Lee brings more to the team than Gillespie, that's all. But I have no fixed opinion on the matter.
    Tendulkar - M.Waugh - Ponting - Richards - Dhoni - Bevan - Kapil Dev - Hadlee - Akram - Garner - Muralitharan

  8. #38
    International Debutant adub's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flibbertyjibber View Post
    So basically pick a majority of players who got flogged and ignore the winners then. Good plan.
    England are no doubt a better team than Australia atm. But that has far more to do with how much worse we are than our peak than how much better you lot are. Gus would clean up our current line up. I do find it amusing that people are so hot to get Broad in the team. Says a lot about the quality of what you've got to pick from I suppose. If he was Australian he'd be battling Mitchell Johnson for...

    well certainly not for consideration in this selection.

  9. #39
    State Regular GuyFromLancs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adub View Post
    England are no doubt a better team than Australia atm. But that has far more to do with how much worse we are than our peak than how much better you lot are. Gus would clean up our current line up. I do find it amusing that people are so hot to get Broad in the team. Says a lot about the quality of what you've got to pick from I suppose. If he was Australian he'd be battling Mitchell Johnson for...

    well certainly not for consideration in this selection.

    This is my view too. This is why I sided with some of the 90s players above today's lot.

    Gooch, Stewart, Thorpe - they'd feast on today's Australia team. So would Fraser in my opinion. Imagine how Gus could prey on the impatience and general lack of test technique of the current Aussie batsmen.

  10. #40
    International Vice-Captain watson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adub View Post
    England are no doubt a better team than Australia atm. But that has far more to do with how much worse we are than our peak than how much better you lot are. Gus would clean up our current line up. I do find it amusing that people are so hot to get Broad in the team. Says a lot about the quality of what you've got to pick from I suppose. If he was Australian he'd be battling Mitchell Johnson for...

    well certainly not for consideration in this selection.


    Broad: 10 x 5-fers and 2 x 10-fers in 62 Tests. Strike Rate = 59.5 Ave = 30.58

    Fraser: 13 x 5-fers and 2 x 10-fers in 46 Tests. Strike Rate = 61.4 Ave = 27.32

    On those numbers there's not much between them tbh. So it boils down to what type of bowler do you want to partner Anderson/Gough? A more aggressive bowler, or a more consistent methodical bowler?
    Last edited by watson; 27-09-2013 at 03:39 AM.

  11. #41
    State Regular GuyFromLancs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by watson View Post
    I didn't say that Lee was the better bowler - 'Not much between the bowling skills of Lee and Gillespie' is what I said.

    Overall, I think that Lee brings more to the team than Gillespie, that's all. But I have no fixed opinion on the matter.
    I think the one thing Lee brings to the Ashes is runs for England. Despite averging about 92MPH, rising to 96MPH when he was pissed off, he went for 42 runs a wicket in 05.

    Yes I know Dizzy went for a tonne, but his career was clearly over at this point, whilst Lee would go on to lead the attack after McGrath.

    I don't think there's any comparing Gillespie and Lee. Gillespie was clearly far better.
    Last edited by GuyFromLancs; 27-09-2013 at 03:42 AM.

  12. #42
    International Debutant adub's Avatar
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    Yeah I can't see any compelling reason for picking Lee and I was quite a fan of Bing.

  13. #43
    State Regular GuyFromLancs's Avatar
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    Lee was a curious one. He often looked awesome in ODIs, but in tests he was **** for years.

    When I think back to 05, the desperate situations and nail-biters. I was praying for the Aussies to bowl Lee, as despite his pace, he was the guy all our batsmen could milk. And unlike JG, he was meant to be at his peak at this point.

    That is a litmus test in my view. When me, as the opposition, want him on as much as possible.

  14. #44
    International Vice-Captain watson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adub View Post
    Yeah I can't see any compelling reason for picking Lee and I was quite a fan of Bing.
    Yeah, in an Ashes context Brett Lee would probably not be the best bowling option. An average of 40 against England is not good enough, although a Strike Rate of 63 isn't too bad.

    Gillespie's comparative average of 29 is a lot better, as is a Strike Rate of 49.

    However, the absence of Lee does make the tail look particularly weak.

  15. #45
    International Vice-Captain watson's Avatar
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    I think that Paul Reiffel is the forgotten bowler here. Against England his Average was 23 and Strike Rate 51.

    He could also handle the bat well as he averaged 40 runs.

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