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Thread: Ambrose or Mcgrath?

  1. #31
    International Captain watson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flem274* View Post
    They're not the four best bowlers by much if at all though, and some other **** might pick a team who can bat to 11.

    Imran
    Hadlee
    Marshall
    Warne

    Is my 8-11, but I'm not sold the above are the four best bowlers in history. Bats deep though.
    So batting skill aside Flem - what 4 bowlers do you think would form the best/strongest attack of all time if those mentioned above don't?
    Last edited by watson; 27-09-2013 at 06:30 AM.
    Len Hutton - Jack Hobbs - Ted Dexter - Peter May - Walter Hammond - Frank Woolley - Ian Botham - Alan Knott - Hedley Verity - John Snow - Fred Trueman

    Victor Trumper - Bill Lawry - Don Bradman - Greg Chappell - Allan Border - Keith Miller - Adam Gilchrist - Alan Davidson - Shane Warne - Dennis Lillee - Glenn McGrath

  2. #32
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Flem274*'s Avatar
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    You mean excluding the above four?

    That's a really hard one because there's a big list. Stream of consciousness I would pick..

    McGrath
    Steyn
    Ambrose
    Murali

    Steyn the most debateable. Holding, Davidson, Garner, Trueman, Wasim and Lindwall also crossed my mind but I went with my man crush.
    Quote Originally Posted by Athlai View Post
    Jeets doesn't really deserve to be bowling.
    Quote Originally Posted by Athlai View Post
    Well yeah Tendy is probably better than Bradman, but Bradman was 70 years ago, if he grew up in the modern era he'd still easily be the best. Though he wasn't, can understand the argument for Tendy even though I don't agree.
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  3. #33
    International Captain watson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flem274* View Post
    You mean excluding the above four?

    That's a really hard one because there's a big list. Stream of consciousness I would pick..

    McGrath
    Steyn
    Ambrose
    Murali

    Steyn the most debateable. Holding, Davidson, Garner, Trueman, Wasim and Lindwall also crossed my mind but I went with my man crush.
    No, including absolutely everybody.

  4. #34
    State Vice-Captain schearzie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flem274* View Post
    You mean excluding the above four?

    That's a really hard one because there's a big list. Stream of consciousness I would pick..

    McGrath
    Steyn
    Ambrose
    Murali

    Steyn the most debateable. Holding, Davidson, Garner, Trueman, Wasim and Lindwall also crossed my mind but I went with my man crush.
    Quote Originally Posted by watson View Post
    No, including absolutely everybody.
    What? Cricket exised before 1988?
    Current Favourite XI 1. Gayle 2. Warner 3.Sangakarra 4. Clarke* 5. Chanderpaul 6.DeVilliers 7. De Kock+ 8. Vettori 9. Johnson 10. Herath 11. Steyn


  5. #35
    Cricketer Of The Year hendrix's Avatar
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    on flat wickets, maybe some humidity:

    Imran
    Akram
    Marshall
    Murali

    neither Imran nor Akram are in the top 5 bowlers of all time but they make this team for composition reasons.

    On grassy wickets:

    Hadlee
    Marshall
    Murali
    Ambrose

    Ambrose and Hadlee have a shot at making my top 5, but this is a horse-for-courses selection. I really don't think you're giving up much between most of the bowlers in the top ten, and it's better to shuffle them depending on conditions.
    Last edited by hendrix; 27-09-2013 at 04:00 PM.

  6. #36
    Eternal Optimist / Cricket Web Staff Member GIMH's Avatar
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    Anthony McGrath>>>Tim Ambrose

  7. #37
    State Vice-Captain schearzie's Avatar
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    If you have a hard and fast bowler than I'd take McGrath. I'd only take Ambrose of these two if I needed an intimidator.

  8. #38
    International Regular harsh.ag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hendrix View Post
    on flat wickets, maybe some humidity:

    Imran
    Akram
    Marshall
    Murali

    neither Imran nor Akram are in the top 5 bowlers of all time but they make this team for composition reasons.
    I would take this attack and just replace Imran with McGrath. Overall, gives better variety and depth, I think. Plus, his record in India is good. Imran is of course, as good a selection.
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  9. #39
    State Vice-Captain schearzie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by harsh.skm View Post
    I would take this attack and just replace Imran with McGrath. Overall, gives better variety and depth, I think. Plus, his record in India is good. Imran is of course, as good a selection.
    Yeah, I don't think yo can have Akram and Imran in an ATG side

  10. #40
    Cricketer Of The Year hendrix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by schearzie View Post
    Yeah, I don't think yo can have Akram and Imran in an ATG side
    on flat wickets it makes sense to me. It's not that McGrath, Ambrose, Hadlee etc weren't also very good in the subcontinent - they were fantastic - but in those particular conditions where movement in the air rather than off the pitch is the premium, it's those bowlers I'd want there.

  11. #41
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend smalishah84's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by harsh.skm View Post
    I would take this attack and just replace Imran with McGrath. Overall, gives better variety and depth, I think. Plus, his record in India is good. Imran is of course, as good a selection.
    With old ball Imran was a monster on placid tracks. Could run through batting line ups with those 90mph in dippers. In the SC better than McG
    Last edited by smalishah84; 28-09-2013 at 07:06 AM.
    And smalishah's avatar is the most classy one by far Jan certainly echoes the sentiments of CW

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  12. #42
    International Vice-Captain kyear2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince EWS View Post
    Yeah they'd be more four too, not necessarily in that order. I'd always pick Imran as one of my bowlers in my ATWXI due to the aforementioned "allrounder fetish" but those four are IMO the best four Test bowlers of all time, with O'Reilly probably fifth. Ambrose is probably next up.
    Murali, Marshall, Barnes and Hadlee were probably among the most effective bowlers in history (along with Trueman, Donald and McGrath), but no one fully understands what Barnes bowled and he basically padded his stats vs (relatively weak) S.A on the matting pitches that ideally fitted his bowling and doesn't exist anymore. Murali was probably marginally ahead of Warne overall as a spinner, but out side of the S.C. would probably still take Warne and his batting and slip catching pushes him over Murali for me because as bowlers they were so close with Warne being equally as effective in Sri Lanka and they both suffered at the hands of Lara and Sachin and co. Not sure what Hadlee gives us that McGrath doesn't as a bowler and Glenn had a better well rounded record everywhere and was just as consistent but for longer and was more accurate and for me relied less on pitches for assistance. For me he is a clear winner over Hadlee. To replace Barnes one of the reverse swing bowlers from Pakistan would give the attack some more pace and variety than utilizing any two of Barnes/McGrath/Hadlee.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flem274* View Post
    imo McGrath is the best specialist bowler of all time but he doesn't make my all time eleven.

    if you think pews has an allrounder fetish then im the guy with the hushed up addiction
    If he is your best ever bowler he should make your AT XI, no one picks their openers based on if they could bowl, at least your opening bowlers IHMO should be selected purely as bowlers. Don't understand the All Rounder obsession, ideally the #8 should be able to bat and in a best case scenario it's a bonus if your #9 can as well, but at least two of your bowlers should be your top rated bowlers, as the bowlers job is primarily take 20 wickets as quickly as possible, for as little runs as possible and be able to do so in all conditions, not to specifically support the batting lineup or prop up the team if the batters fail. If it is close like Murali and Warne then I will always choose Warne (Warne also brings his slip catching), and yes a balance is required as I stated above, but if McGrath is your clear No.1 fast bowler then surely he can find a place at No. 11.

    The best selected bowling attacks I have seen is

    Marshall, Warne, Lillee, Barnes (Boycott)
    Akram, Marshall, Warne, Lillee (Cricinfo)
    Imran, Marshall, Warne, McGrath (CW/mine )

    Boycott's I like from a historical but not practical perspective, depends on if an AT XI is selected based on your career or if you are actually being selected as part of the best possible attack to take on Mars. From a career and anecdotal perspective the attack is perfect.

    For Cricinfo's, it's a role based team selection and it's equally brilliant from that perspective. They are many among the Anglo/Australian media and historian group that rate Lillee the best ever, Marshall for an equal many is (correctly ) rated the best ever and they will share the new ball, Akran isn't better than many of the possible contenders for the third slot, but he is, possibly along with Imran (and Garner with his yorkers and rib searchers) the best old ball bowler who adds the LH component, his magic deliveries and his innate ability to mow down the tail, him along with Warne would be devastating with the old ball, and Marshall also enjoyed bowling with the old ball and could reverse it and use his cutters, there would be no respite with the old and Marshall and Lillee with the new would be irresistible and terrifying (also why I selected Watson's team the best from the last draft).

    The CW selected team though is more balanced, from a peer and anecdotal perspective Lillee was highly rated, in every other way though McGrath comes out on top. He was accurate, probing and unrelenting. Statistically the best opening attack was Marshall and Garner, due in part I believe to their contrasting styles, Garner's height and his accuracy. McGrath brings all of that and more and him and Marshall though not as terrifying as Lillee and Marshall would be even more penetrating and irresistable. Marshall's searing pace and swing and McGrath accuracy and seam movement would be too much for any batsman. Imran was good an old ball bowler as Wasim, and while he didn't bring the LH variety that Akram provided he was the overall better bowler and the best ever bowling all rounder and his batting is a huge plus at #8. His reverse swing and early fearsome pace compliments McGrath and Marshall brilliantly and would equally as effective as Wasim with Warne, though Akram did have that extra magic as well.
    This attack gives brilliant batting depth down to 10 and Warne allows flexibility as a great slipper as well and it's also as strong an attack as can possibly be collected with pace, seam, swing, spin and reverse swing being covered.
    smalishah84 likes this.
    Aus. XI
    Simpson^ | Hayden | Bradman | Chappell^ | Ponting | Border* | Gilchrist+ | Davidson3 | Warne4^ | Lillee1 | McGrath2


    W.I. XI
    Greenidge | Hunte | Richards^ | Headley* | Lara^ | Sobers5^ | Walcott+ | Marshall1 | Ambrose2 | Holding3 | Garner4

    S.A. XI
    Richards^ | Smith*^ | Amla | Pollock | Kallis5^ | Nourse | Cameron+ | Procter3 | Steyn1 | Tayfield4 | Donald2

    Eng. XI
    Hobbs | Hutton*^ | Hammond^ | Compton | Barrington | Botham5^ | Knott | Trueman1 | Laker4 | Larwood2 | Barnes3

  13. #43
    International Captain wellAlbidarned's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyear2 View Post
    Murali, Marshall, Barnes and Hadlee were probably among the most effective bowlers in history (along with Trueman, Donald and McGrath), but no one fully understands what Barnes bowled and he basically padded his stats vs (relatively weak) S.A on the matting pitches that ideally fitted his bowling and doesn't exist anymore. Murali was probably marginally ahead of Warne overall as a spinner, but out side of the S.C. would probably still take Warne and his batting and slip catching pushes him over Murali for me because as bowlers they were so close with Warne being equally as effective in Sri Lanka and they both suffered at the hands of Lara and Sachin and co. Not sure what Hadlee gives us that McGrath doesn't as a bowler and Glenn had a better well rounded record everywhere and was just as consistent but for longer and was more accurate and for me relied less on pitches for assistance. For me he is a clear winner over Hadlee. .
    Not sure what I'm missing, but Hadlee averaged LOWER than his career average in both india and aus. Definitely not fair to say he relied on pitches for assistance at all, he wrecked everywhere just like McGrath.
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  14. #44
    International Captain OverratedSanity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyear2 View Post
    Not sure what Hadlee gives us that McGrath doesn't as a bowler and Glenn had a better well rounded record everywhere and was just as consistent but for longer and was more accurate and for me relied less on pitches for assistance.
    What's the basis for this claim? I didn't watch Hadlee bowl, but Hadlee sees to have as good a record as McGrath everywhere he played. There's nothing really in their records at all to draw any inferences as to who relied on assistance from pitches more

  15. #45
    State Vice-Captain akilana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OverratedSanity View Post
    What's the basis for this claim? I didn't watch Hadlee bowl, but Hadlee sees to have as good a record as McGrath everywhere he played. There's nothing really in their records at all to draw any inferences as to who relied on assistance from pitches more
    Get used this kind of rubbish
    Last edited by akilana; 28-09-2013 at 08:56 PM.

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