Englands Foreigners

[Maximas]

Fawad Ahmed being a genuine refugee is a slightly different matter, but the fact that he was treated much better than your average refugee arrival to Australia I guess means he belongs on the list

 

[morgieb]

Luke Ronchi, Eoin Morgan and Boyd Rankin are the really rank ones. Most of the others like Stokes, KP etc are fine.

tbf to Morgan and Rankin, this was their best chance to play Tests. Although if England only pick them for ODI's (which they look like doing) then that's pretty ****ty.

I used to care, but now I just CBF.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

Or when New Zealand picked Australian international Luke Ronchi.

I think there was a fair few questions asked about this tbh. Same with Kruger van Wyk, Neil Wagner or Grant Elliott.

 

[benchmark00]

Why is there a dearth in top level talent being born and bred in England is the real question.

 

[hendrix]

Stokes I absolutely don't have a problem with. If you went to school in the country you're playing for then there should be no questions asked IMO.

Ronchi I could go either way on. I think there's some advantage to allowing international players play for their second choice team if they're unlikely to be selected for their first choice team. When England spit out some of the Irish players I'd like for them to be eligible to play for Ireland.

 

[Flem274*]

you shouldn't get a second choice team. if you've played international cricket for a top eight nation, got dropped so ****ed off to another top eight nation then that just makes a mockery of international sport. i can cope with a wagner or a tahir, and a bit more so with a brownlie, but ronchi and maybe the irsh guys are too much for me.

i do have some sympathy for the irish cricketers though, but then ireland does appear to be heavily dependent on county cricket developing their players. though maybe the counties do see a quality young irish teenager and pluck him for their self interest. i don't know all the deets about the ireland/england situation.

 

[Flem274*]

oh, and i would add the likes of CdG, Ballance and especially fawad ahmed are all good. you can't blame someone for wanting to move away from a cluster****.

 

[Adders]

Luke Ronchi, Eoin Morgan and Boyd Rankin are the really rank ones. Most of the others like Stokes, KP etc are fine.

Yeah, this is where it doesn't sit comfortably with me either.

I think once you've played International cricket (any format) then you shouldn't be allowed to then go play for another country. I think the players you mentioned need to make a decision early in their career and stick with it, if they have test cricket aspirations (the Irish) they need to back themselves from the beginning. At the moment it seems like they are hedging their bets.

As for the general topic here, couldn't disagree more with the OP.........it is a non issue and it's high time everyone just got over it.

 

[Maximas]

As long as said foreigner is essentially a product of that country's FC system then that is fine by me

 

[hendrix]

Yeah, this is where it doesn't sit comfortably with me either.

I think once you've played International cricket (any format) then you shouldn't be allowed to then go play for another country. I think the players you mentioned need to make a decision early in their career and stick with it, if they have test cricket aspirations (the Irish) they need to back themselves from the beginning. At the moment it seems like they are hedging their bets.

As for the general topic here, couldn't disagree more with the OP.........it is a non issue and it's high time everyone just got over it.

In that case, neither Ireland nor Zimbabwe will ever become competitive. Afghanistan, Canada etc too.

 

[hendrix]

As long as said foreigner is essentially a product of that country's FC system then that is fine by me

Again, Zimbabwe and Irish cricket will never have a chance with this system.

 

[Maximas]

In that case, neither Ireland nor Zimbabwe will ever become competitive. Afghanistan, Canada etc too.

Do the talented players of those countries deserve the salaries offered by England or other countries as well as the chance to play regular test cricket more than the countries themselves deserving the chance to play their best team twice a year? Unless there is a big united push to get minnows off the ground then I can't see the best talent of minnow countries wanting to stay.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Stokes is the worst example. He came here at like 12 with his family and has been through all the Durham age groups.

I don't have a problem with this at all. As a rugby fan, however, I get really annoyed when NZ rugby is accused of picking foreigners when Samoan (etc) kids move to NZ with their families when they are 3 years old (or are born in NZ!), and Northern hemisphere 'experts' say we are poaching!!!???!!!!

On another note - prediction time. Stokes, Corey Anderson, Jimmy Neesham - all similar players of a similar age - who will have the most successful career?

 

[Flem274*]

Stokes has the best people surrounding him, Anderson will get the most opportunities and Neesham is the one who will have to work the most for his opportunities.

Stokes or Neesham imo. Anderson struggles to stay fit and I'm dubious he can make it as a batsman alone. The other two have the ceilings to be test standard in both disciplines and stay fit.

 

[Prince EWS]

Wouldn't it be nice if people were able to keep their place of birth to themselves? Then the whingers might actually have to think a little about their arbitrary is-he-English-enough criteria. Which I expect would be enough to shut most of them up.

~

The person who I'd consider my best mate lived in SA until he was 14, then came through the system here before getting work here in his chosen area of expertise. People with those circumstances represent my view of our society pretty well. I don't think I've met anyone like Alastair Cook, though.

I suppose it depends in exactly how you view international sporting competition. I've always seen it as players representing their national identity rather than representing their place of residence so whether it not it reflects society or not isn't exactly the point for me. The reason I like true representative sport at all levels - whether it be State of Origin rugby league or Test cricket - is that players' loyalties cannot be bought or sold, or influenced by the greater facts of life. I think this has been greatly eroded throughout my life time to a point where I'm not quite sure what these international teams are really supposed to be representing.

I personally couldn't care less about the birthplace of players and I don't hold specific resentment towards those who played for two countries, but what grinds my gears is when players:

• elect to play for their country of residence for the sake of economics, convenience or ease of selection despite the fact that they identify themselves as holding a different nationality, or would actively support another international cricket team ahead of their country of residence if they weren't personally involved
• move to another country they have no real ties to in order to play domestic cricket and then turn up in the national setup

The second dot point in particular really grinds my gears; the idea of Grant Elliott packing his bags and leaving his role as a player on the cusp of the professional cricket setup in South Africa to go to New Zealand in his 20s, only to end up playing for New Zealand makes a complete mockery of the way I see international representation. I have absolutely no gripe with him moving to New Zealand in order to play domestic cricket but to represent the national team after that was a joke.

The problem with my dots points of course is that they're heavily based on individual loyalties and state of mind, meaning they're very hard to actually test or codify. And of course, as much as I'd like it to as a fan, international cricket does not exist in a utopian bubble, nor is it played by robots, so players are naturally going to do what's best for their careers, their personal lives and their families. You can't blame them for doing that and you can't blame the countries they move to for selecting them if they're eligible and the best available - you can't really blame anyone, but to me it's still definitely unfortunate.

I think one of the biggest problems international cricket is facing with this is the invisible cap we've placed on how good a player from say, Zimbabwe or Ireland, is allowed to get before he stops playing for them. If you're good enough to play for England then you're straight up not going to play for Zimbabwe or Ireland regardless of your passport status - if you're an Irishman then you'll literally actually get picked for England and if you're a Zimbabwean, even if you don't have a European passport, a player of that calibre will no doubt get offered a deal as an overseas county player which would be too good to refuse. This really sucks the life out of following a side like that because while previously Zimbabwe fans could live in hope that no matter how rubbish the side was and how dire the political situation in the country was, there was a small, small chance that the next Andy Flower or Heath Streak would just randomly emerge. The side could be rubbish but the scope for improvement was unlimited, and now the realistic situation is that the scope for improvement is very much capped. It makes me question whether there's any real point in having these sides at all sometimes, when they're legitimately better off producing a player of Malcolm Waller standard than Kyle Jarvis standard.

 

[Quaggas]

Luke Ronchi, Eoin Morgan and Boyd Rankin are the really rank ones. Most of the others like Stokes, KP etc are fine.

Everyone's 100% fine except for KP.

 

[Flem274*]

I'm worried Brendan Taylor will get offered and accept a contract somewhere. He's definitely good enough to play county cricket.

 

[Prince EWS]

I'm worried Brendan Taylor will get offered and accept a contract somewhere. He's definitely good enough to play county cricket.

I'm pretty sure he'd have to play as an overseas player if he did though.

 

[kipper]

I don't see a problem with anyone representing any country as I am sure Brit players would love to have a season or two in warmer places

 

[Hurricane]

Welcome to CW.