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West indies-A tour of India!!

Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
I think 3 pacers is the best way to go for India A. Primarily they are about feeding into the senior team and we need pacers at the moment. We don't have loads of spinners but Jadeja and Ashwin do a good job and we have people like Ojha and Mishra who are the reserves. With pace, it can be argued that we do not have even one reliable good opening bowler.
The Indian team needs genuine pacers, not green-top-wobbler bullies like the whole platoon spawned by the last Ranji season. The only decent ones are Ishwar Pandey (who was gobbled up by Chris Gayle) and Mohit Sharma (who's slipping in the CLT20 now), both a season or two old. The pacers we're seeing come forth are not pacers, but swing/seam bowlers who won't last ten overs outside their comfort zone of green-tops and chilly winds. Already Suraj Yadav was smashed all around. We want more Umesh Yadavs, more Varun Aarons, more Pawan Suyals, and not more Vinay Kumar clones.
 

Manee

Cricketer Of The Year
The Indian team needs genuine pacers, not green-top-wobbler bullies like the whole platoon spawned by the last Ranji season. The only decent ones are Ishwar Pandey (who was gobbled up by Chris Gayle) and Mohit Sharma (who's slipping in the CLT20 now), both a season or two old. The pacers we're seeing come forth are not pacers, but swing/seam bowlers who won't last ten overs outside their comfort zone of green-tops and chilly winds. Already Suraj Yadav was smashed all around. We want more Umesh Yadavs, more Varun Aarons, more Pawan Suyals, and not more Vinay Kumar clones.
The big issue is that we do not have dozens who can bowl at 135kph+. We have to make do with what we have. Dinda, for example, is one of very few that we have who can bowl over 140kph, but it has come time to move on.
 

hendrix

Hall of Fame Member
Kraigg is a selfish player and from actually talking to players who play with him, he cares only for his average and places an undue pressure on his partners to score. I have spoken to team mates of his all the way from high school and he could care less about team situation or requirements. He lacks that second gear to be able to score quickly if required even if he wanted to and proved to be a walking wicket at his last opportunity. Would love for Powell to take that next step in his progression and take on the mantle of our number one opener.
Good players use stats as motivation.
 

JontyPanesar

U19 Vice-Captain
The Indian team needs genuine pacers, not green-top-wobbler bullies like the whole platoon spawned by the last Ranji season. The only decent ones are Ishwar Pandey (who was gobbled up by Chris Gayle) and Mohit Sharma (who's slipping in the CLT20 now), both a season or two old. The pacers we're seeing come forth are not pacers, but swing/seam bowlers who won't last ten overs outside their comfort zone of green-tops and chilly winds. Already Suraj Yadav was smashed all around. We want more Umesh Yadavs, more Varun Aarons, more Pawan Suyals, and not more Vinay Kumar clones.
Lol. Largely agree though I'm not so fond of bowlers with all pace and no accuracy or skill (aka Ishant). A skilled, accurate medium pacer has his place, but most of the leading Ranji seamers are nowhere near as accurate or skilled as they need to be. You should also stop hating on a couple of bowlers who might have struggled in a t20. That bears no indication on how they'll do in the longest format of the game. Gayle has bullied plenty of bowlers in t20s and will continue to do so. First-Class cricket is a totally different animal from t20 and it's a shame we make judgments on players based on a few slapdash innings.

As far as how this match went, disappointing to say the least but a lot of it can be chalked up to conditions:
Pandey having ok figures but nothing impressive
Jiwanjot showing he still can't play spin. Probably to his benefit that he's exposed now than if he was irresponsibly fast-tracked.

What seems a little less explainable:
Pujara's two poor scores. Won't make much of them yet, but this is competition that he should be able to dispatch with relative ease if he's as good as helooks.
Juneja being the top batsman for India by a mile. Expectations are only getting higher for the young man.
 

Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
Lol. Largely agree though I'm not so fond of bowlers with all pace and no accuracy or skill (aka Ishant). A skilled, accurate medium pacer has his place, but most of the leading Ranji seamers are nowhere near as accurate or skilled as they need to be. You should also stop hating on a couple of bowlers who might have struggled in a t20. That bears no indication on how they'll do in the longest format of the game. Gayle has bullied plenty of bowlers in t20s and will continue to do so. First-Class cricket is a totally different animal from t20 and it's a shame we make judgments on players based on a few slapdash innings.
I'm not sure Ishant has much pace to be relevant these days. I'm talking of the likes of Yadav/Aaron/Nechim/Suyal, who have serious pace, and would prefer to see them taking loads of wickets. Nothing wrong in that, eh? My main complaint about the likes of Pandey and Mohit Sharma being elevated to the national team is that they are only a season or two old, and most of their success has come in greentops, winds and chills. We haven't seen them run through Ranji sides on flat decks in the West or turning strips in the South and East.

My other concern raised was about the excess of greentops in the domestic scene. These are not breeding quality fast bowlers. They're making mediocre medium-pacers (Suraj Yadav, for instance) look competitive, but stifling not just spinners but also batsmen, albeit to a lesser degree. I feel there should be a mix of flat decks, seaming wickets, turning tracks, mixed-up trails and even a few win-the-toss-win-the-game changing pitches, so that everyone's prepared- batsmen score on turners and greenies, spinners take wickets even when it doesn't turn, seamers get wickets on flat decks and teams have plenty of all-rounders coming forth.
JontyPanesar said:
As far as how this match went, disappointing to say the least but a lot of it can be chalked up to conditions:
Pandey having ok figures but nothing impressive
Jiwanjot showing he still can't play spin. Probably to his benefit that he's exposed now than if he was irresponsibly fast-tracked.

What seems a little less explainable:
Pujara's two poor scores. Won't make much of them yet, but this is competition that he should be able to dispatch with relative ease if he's as good as helooks.
Juneja being the top batsman for India by a mile. Expectations are only getting higher for the young man.
Pandey, JJ, Paliwal, Juno, Rahul, Shami so many of these blokes are either a season old or have not played plenty for their State teams. Mostly greenhorns. This is a learning experience for a lot of them. Greentop-bred JJ can't play spin these days, but maybe we'll see him do better next season. Pandey can learn a lot on what it takes to chip wickets on something that doesn't seam a lot. Juno's got plenty of runs, but we need to watch him over four more seasons before he's a prospect at all. And of course, with three events (this one, the Challenger Trophy that's concluded, and the CLT20 where reserves warm benches) going on together, dilution cannot be ruled out.

We also have to note that West Indies' A team are a lot stronger than the New Zealand A team that got flattened in the previous event. They're also a lot more experienced than the current India-A side, with an average of 50 matches per player as against India A's 30. Hardly greenhorns, with 7/11 players having played over fifty FC matches, as against 2/11. India A should treat it as a learning experience, but if anyone in that side is trying to launch a bid to make the main team with individual performances, tough luck.
 

Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
The big issue is that we do not have dozens who can bowl at 135kph+. We have to make do with what we have. Dinda, for example, is one of very few that we have who can bowl over 140kph, but it has come time to move on.
Dinda bowls over 140 only occasionally, but has no control over line and length. In an ideal setup, you pick Pankaj Singh, Bhuvan and Vinay Kumar and make them bowl over 140K with cleaner, smoother actions, and keep them fit as athletes, which is how you make do. Other teams have bowlers who begin slow and pick up pace- not the blistering 150K but the productive 140-145K. I feel more Johnson/Starc/Cummins/Finn/Broad/Morne kind of bowlers will be appropriate, when hunting in packs, but the lack of serious pace will weaken the Indian attack when they're not in helpful conditions.
 

Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
My take? It depends on who's picked. I'd back the Indian seamers to do well anywhere but at Perth, because it's just flat and hard. They've got no clue about how to handle it. I'd back them to do a lot better than last season, but if they can chip wickets for an average between 28 and 33, it's a good return. Things can change in that much time, so I can't tell you much- the bowlers will be smarter, the Aussie batsmen, more experienced.

I can tell that Umesh will be chaotic, but somehow take down a few wickets, but I'd prefer tighter bowling at that pace, to support Bhuvi- who will struggle if he's got no real pace or real pace support. Pankaj Singh would revel in those conditions, but the selectors simply don't want him, for inexplicable reasons. Bhuvi-Yadav-Pankaj seems a neat package. No place (ideally) for Ishant, Vinay or those one-season-olds or ODI specialists. Not sure of Parvinder Awana, who does rather well in Ranji, but patchy in IPL and was dire when he played for India in those two games- hits the deck hard, decent pace, can move it a fair bit, but poor fitness overall.
 

Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
What do you think? Someone like a Shane Watson or David Warner or Adam Voges or Cam White can waltz down the track and hoist these blokes the way they did Vinay Kumar? I'd say things will be a lot less lopsided than they were in the 2011-12 season, if the Indians pick the right men and get Umesh Yadav to bowl tightly. They need that man in form. That Ishant Sharma's a dire parody of his former self from the Pakistan/Australia series in 2007-08 is also an indictment of the player management system in India. They need him in top form too, but that's a long shot, given how he's been ruined over five years.
 

Daemon

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Can't seem to find any journo's covering this game on twitter, usually Wisden India has at least one of their guys out there.

Can't really tell just by looking at the numbers, but Zaheer looks to be bowling decently. Could just be a case of the WI top order being super cautious as usual though.
 

Maximas

Cricketer Of The Year
It's just Kraigg by the looks of it, Powell was striking at an acceptable rate before he got out. I don't think these pitches are giving the fast men much assistance either, Pujara seemed to think there was nothing in it for the quicks last game
 

Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
Hard on Ishwar Pandey, to miss this one, but one of him and Shami had to miss out. Maybe he'll get the next game.
 

Kippax

Cricketer Of The Year
Can't seem to find any journo's covering this game on twitter, usually Wisden India has at least one of their guys out there.

Can't really tell just by looking at the numbers, but Zaheer looks to be bowling decently. Could just be a case of the WI top order being super cautious as usual though.
http://twitter.com/anandvasu






West Indies A accumulate on day of attrition | Cricket Match Report | Wisden India

If awards were given out for outstanding performances at the end of the first day’s play in Shimoga, the organisers would have needed about 10,000 medals. Players from West Indies A and India A did their bit on a slow day, but even in still and balmy conditions, the spectators, who took every vantage point at the Jawaharlal Nehru National College of Engineering ground and stayed the course, were the stars. West Indies A, after choosing to bat, ended the day on 283 for 6.

Wednesday (October 2) was a day of dour cricket as India A’s bowlers simply could not get enough from a pitch that was on the slower side. While the bounce was even, there wasn’t enough carry for the quick bowlers to force the pace, even when they bent their backs, and on a first-day pitch, the spinners did well to mop up four wickets.

Once the result of the toss was known, spectators trained their sights on watching Zaheer Khan on the comeback trail.

Zaheer was accurate to begin with, but bowled a touch within himself in a first spell that read 5-2-6-0. Kraigg Brathwaite was cautious, as is his wont, and Kieran Powell did not get much in his hitting zone. Zaheer returned for a second spell that was bisected by the lunch break, and struggled for rhythm, overstepping frequently. His second effort, 5-0-22-1, included four no-balls and the wicket of Narsingh Deonarine, who was trapped in front of the stumps. In the second session, Zaheer’s involvement was limited to a two-over spell that went for 15, in the course of which he overstepped on two more occasions. Zaheer returned for one final fling as they wound down. The lower order was subjected to some short-pitched bowling, but most of these were easily left alone in a spell that read 4-3-1-0, taking Zaheer’s workload for the day to 16-5-44-1.

With West Indies A having taken a 1-0 lead in the three-match series, beating India A in the first game in Mysore, their batsmen had no need to be overly adventurous. Cheteshwar Pujara was forced to turn to spin in the 14th over, introducing Parveez Rasool, whose bustling action ensured that the ball came through at a brisk pace. Bhargav Bhatt, the left-arm spinner, tossed the ball up a bit more, and was rewarded with the first wicket of the day, when Powell was tempted into the big shot but picked out Mohammad Kaif at wide long-on. Kirk Edwards was then lured forward by Bhatt and Uday Kaul completed the stumping.

With Zaheer accounting for Deonarine, Assad Fudadin and Brathwaite bedded down for the most significant partnership of the day. Batting in a fashion you don’t associate with men from the Caribbean, the two accumulated runs through dabs, flicks, pushes and nudges, running the ones and twos hard and not really looking for the big shots. With the pitch, which failed to mirror the bounce the players got used to on the practice surfaces on the outfield, taking the edge off the bowling, Brathwaite and Fudadin had little trouble in putting on 117 for the fourth wicket. Fudadin made the most of India A’s hospitality – he was dropped on 12, by VA Jagadeesh at wide gully, and again on 27 by Kaif at point – and Brathwaite looked in no visible discomfort.

It was against the run of play that the fourth-wicket stand was broken, when Fudadin attempted to sweep Bhatt and missed. The finger went up, and Fudadin (63) shook his head in disappointment on the long walk back to the pavilion. As is so often the case, when one half of a long partnership falls, the other follows in quick time. Brathwaite, who had reached 82 with the help of 13 fours, and looked good for a century, fell off the 202nd ball he faced, feathering a nick to the ’keeper off Rasool.

The arrival at the crease of Chadwick Walton, the wicketkeeper, and Leon Johnson, livened up proceedings as the spinners came in for some tap. Johnson’s first four scoring shots were all boundaries, and Walton was unafraid to throw his bat when there was width on offer. It was, however, this tendency that proved his downfall when Mohammed Shami got a ball to hurry through and Walton (30) was caught behind.

At the end of the day, with West Indies A on 283 for 6, neither team will be overly happy with how things went. Then again, it was that sort of pitch where spinner, fast bowler and batsmen all went away unsatisfied.
 

WindieWeathers

International Regular
Kraigg is a selfish player and from actually talking to players who play with him, he cares only for his average and places an undue pressure on his partners to score. I have spoken to team mates of his all the way from high school and he could care less about team situation or requirements. He lacks that second gear to be able to score quickly if required even if he wanted to and proved to be a walking wicket at his last opportunity. Would love for Powell to take that next step in his progression and take on the mantle of our number one opener.
I also know people who have COACHED the kid and they tell me he is extremely hard working and determined to make it at the top level. Whether he's "selfish" or not is neither here nore there, it's what he contributes at the end of the day that matters and yet again in this first innings of this 2nd test he's top scored already!!. I also think it's naive to write off the lad due to his last few performances at test level when he was only 18!!..he's a different animal now and it's been evident by the scores he's been getting over the last 12 months.
 

Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
Barath is playing for T&T, but hasn't got a game in the CLT20. This may be because he's had an average CPL.\

Think about this. The A-team tournament is being held at the same time as the Challenger/Duleep Trophy and the CLT20. Hardly easy to pick the best A-team, be it reserves or futures.
 

Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
You can safely close the chapter, for now, on Gautam Gambhir's recall to the Test/ODI side. Eleven runs in 44 balls.
 

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