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Thread: **Official** Indian Domestic Season 2013/14

  1. #421
    Cricketer Of The Year Arjun's Avatar
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    As a fan of the Indian Domestic scene (not just the Indian team), I don't wish to watch any feed of the IPL from Dubai. Actually, I don't wish to watch the IPL at all. It has crushed the Indian domestic scene, by pushing India's domestic players, top performers included, to the fringes, and out of contention. On the other hand, they scout zealously for overseas players, even folks who have never played an international game before. That amount of scouting was never done in domestic games.

    They'll also fight tooth and nail against T20 teams of other countries to hold on to their overseas players for CLT20. That's because they're weak without them- but what stopped them from breeding their own player pool? That's what those teams from abroad did all these years- but the IPL is merely grabbing them with big moneybags. How cheap!

    Now, it's in Dubai, when it could simply have had a change in format, or date, and that would benefit Indian audiences a lot more. The last time the IPL was shifted abroad, to South Africa, they played only to TV audiences in India. Revenue loss for advertisers was so high, that stupid ten-minute break was introduced- so anti-viewer that was! That the ridiculous injunction has been lifted is good news, so I won't watch any video feed. Watch it on Cricinfo/Yahoo or not, I won't support the IPL any longer. Franchises can snatch and hoard overseas players as much as they want.
    "Talent is nothing without opportunity"
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  2. #422
    State Vice-Captain karan316's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arjun View Post
    As a fan of the Indian Domestic scene (not just the Indian team), I don't wish to watch any feed of the IPL from Dubai. Actually, I don't wish to watch the IPL at all. It has crushed the Indian domestic scene, by pushing India's domestic players, top performers included, to the fringes, and out of contention. On the other hand, they scout zealously for overseas players, even folks who have never played an international game before. That amount of scouting was never done in domestic games.

    They'll also fight tooth and nail against T20 teams of other countries to hold on to their overseas players for CLT20. That's because they're weak without them- but what stopped them from breeding their own player pool? That's what those teams from abroad did all these years- but the IPL is merely grabbing them with big moneybags. How cheap!

    Now, it's in Dubai, when it could simply have had a change in format, or date, and that would benefit Indian audiences a lot more. The last time the IPL was shifted abroad, to South Africa, they played only to TV audiences in India. Revenue loss for advertisers was so high, that stupid ten-minute break was introduced- so anti-viewer that was! That the ridiculous injunction has been lifted is good news, so I won't watch any video feed. Watch it on Cricinfo/Yahoo or not, I won't support the IPL any longer. Franchises can snatch and hoard overseas players as much as they want.
    I think IPL is a really nice opportunity for the youngsters, getting to play high pressure games along with international pros is great for them. It has been the most useful for Indian domestic players in terms of learning. The problem is not IPL, but the selectors and captain, a player should be selected on both the domestic and IPL performances, they should be picked on merit, there shouldn't be any bias. At the moment, we are having amazing bowlers, pace bowling all rounders, spin bowling all rounders and batsmen playing the domestic season, the level has risen if you compare to what it was before IPL. A lot of youngsters do get opportunities, even if they don't its better that they are at least sharing the dressing room with people from whom they can learn so much.

    If you talk about the IPL being clean and stuff, the problem lied in the fact the Srini was allowed to takeover BCCI and ICC, he was allowed to take an IPL team despite of conflict of interest and there has been no one who has stood up to him. Neither Indians, nor people from other nations have taken a strong stand against him(Amarnath did, I salute him, and he was sacked). There are better options for managing Indian cricket. There are so many ex-Indian cricketers who can run BCCI better.
    Last edited by karan316; 18-04-2014 at 12:13 PM.
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  3. #423
    Cricketer Of The Year Arjun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by karan316
    I think IPL is a really nice opportunity for the youngsters, getting to play high pressure games along with international pros is great for them. It has been the most useful for Indian domestic players in terms of learning.
    However, opportunities are few and far between. Under the pretext of playing or picking to win matches, the overseas players, even no-name recruits who have never played an international, get plenty of time in the frontline, while promising Indian youngsters are kept in the background. Think about this. Mitchell Marsh was a prominent player for the now-defunct Pune team, while Ranji topper Ishwar Pandey, got only two matches. More often than not, Rishi Dhawan has missed a match, and got little to do in a game. Then you have Kallis, an ageing T20 misfit with a strike rate in the 110s, batting in the top three for KKR while Yusuf Pathan struggles in the lower order. Siddarth Kaul, after a brilliant Ranji/Duleep season, got only a match or two in the IPL. Hardly encouraging.
    Quote Originally Posted by karan316
    The problem is not IPL, but the selectors and captain, a player should be selected on both the domestic and IPL performances, they should be picked on merit, there shouldn't be any bias.
    There is merit in that idea, but unfortunately, IPL is very unforgiving to Indian domestic players. One failure and he's back on the bench. On the other hand, Ranji Trophy gives the likes of Rishi Dhawan and Ishwar Pandey plenty of exposure, lack of quality notwithstanding.
    Quote Originally Posted by karan316
    At the moment, we are having amazing bowlers, pace bowling all rounders, spin bowling all rounders and batsmen playing the domestic season, the level has risen if you compare to what it was before IPL. A lot of youngsters do get opportunities, even if they don't its better that they are at least sharing the dressing room with people from whom they can learn so much.
    I have yet to find an amazing pace bowler beyond Umesh Yadav, Varun Aaron, Shamida, Nechi and Suyal. Most of the pace bowlers prospering in the last few years are green-top bullies who get flattened on flat decks. I asked Cricinfo commentators and fans about Mohammed Mudhashir (in FCs) and Shrikanth Wagh (in ODs), who have maintained excellent figures. Both are revealed to be medium-pace green-top bullies. Green-top culture has also stifled growth of spinners, which is why no spinner has been in the top ten wicket-takers across two seasons, bar the blunt Rakesh Dhurv. Murali Kartik has lashed out at this green-top culture lately.
    Quote Originally Posted by karan316
    If you talk about the IPL being clean and stuff, the problem lied in the fact the Srini was allowed to takeover BCCI and ICC, he was allowed to take an IPL team despite of conflict of interest and there has been no one who has stood up to him. Neither Indians, nor people from other nations have taken a strong stand against him(Amarnath did, I salute him, and he was sacked). There are better options for managing Indian cricket. There are so many ex-Indian cricketers who can run BCCI better.
    The Srini mess makes it even worse. I feel Lalit Modi did a far better job than the Shukla-Srini blokes who replaced him.

  4. #424
    State Vice-Captain karan316's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arjun View Post
    However, opportunities are few and far between. Under the pretext of playing or picking to win matches, the overseas players, even no-name recruits who have never played an international, get plenty of time in the frontline, while promising Indian youngsters are kept in the background. Think about this. Mitchell Marsh was a prominent player for the now-defunct Pune team, while Ranji topper Ishwar Pandey, got only two matches. More often than not, Rishi Dhawan has missed a match, and got little to do in a game. Then you have Kallis, an ageing T20 misfit with a strike rate in the 110s, batting in the top three for KKR while Yusuf Pathan struggles in the lower order. Siddarth Kaul, after a brilliant Ranji/Duleep season, got only a match or two in the IPL. Hardly encouraging. There is merit in that idea, but unfortunately, IPL is very unforgiving to Indian domestic players. One failure and he's back on the bench. On the other hand, Ranji Trophy gives the likes of Rishi Dhawan and Ishwar Pandey plenty of exposure, lack of quality notwithstanding.
    Some of it is true, but then I would rather prefer to share the dressing room with International players rather than just playing Indian domestic games. There is so much to learn. People like Yusuf and Jadeja were able to showcase their talent because of the IPL. Yusuf had himself said in an interview that if he hadn't played under Warne, he would have never been good enough to play international games. And one big positive I see with overseas captain is that there are not biased, they want to pick the best side and get the best out of the players. Also, think of people like Rajat Bhatia, LR Shukla, Stuart Binny, Karn Sharma, Ashish Reddy, Mohit Sharma,Iqbal Abdulla, Kamran Khan, etc. IPL has made a massive difference for them. There are many players who have got repeated opportunities in IPL. There are a few negatives, but there are more positives to look at from a players point of view.


    Quote Originally Posted by Arjun View Post
    I have yet to find an amazing pace bowler beyond Umesh Yadav, Varun Aaron, Shamida, Nechi and Suyal. Most of the pace bowlers prospering in the last few years are green-top bullies who get flattened on flat decks. I asked Cricinfo commentators and fans about Mohammed Mudhashir (in FCs) and Shrikanth Wagh (in ODs), who have maintained excellent figures. Both are revealed to be medium-pace green-top bullies. Green-top culture has also stifled growth of spinners, which is why no spinner has been in the top ten wicket-takers across two seasons, bar the blunt Rakesh Dhurv. Murali Kartik has lashed out at this green-top culture lately.
    Shrikanth Wagh is a really good bowler and capable of bowling 135+ regularly, I have seen him bowl, I think there are several bowlers like him who need good mentoring. There are many bowlers who are raw, but have serious potential, I have not seen any special effort from the BCCI to manage or groom pace bowlers or pace bowling all rounders even though we need them the most. Some of the names apart from the ones you gave would be Jasprit Bumrah, Sandeep Sharma, Awana, Dhawal Kulkarni, Anureet Singh, Rahul Shukla and Veer Pratap Singh.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arjun View Post
    The Srini mess makes it even worse. I feel Lalit Modi did a far better job than the Shukla-Srini blokes who replaced him.
    IPL has had a bad name because of him, even before the fixing allegations, there was conflict of interests, allegations of rigging the auctions in favour of CSK, leaked emails of Srini selecting the umpires, allegations of preparing the pitch to suit the CSK side, etc. making IPL a mess. I m not a fan of IPL, but yes, its a good tournament and some quality cricket is being played, it shouldn't get a bad name just because of a few people.
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  5. #425
    Cricketer Of The Year Arjun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by karan316 View Post
    Some of it is true, but then I would rather prefer to share the dressing room with International players rather than just playing Indian domestic games. There is so much to learn. People like Yusuf and Jadeja were able to showcase their talent because of the IPL. Yusuf had himself said in an interview that if he hadn't played under Warne, he would have never been good enough to play international games. And one big positive I see with overseas captain is that there are not biased, they want to pick the best side and get the best out of the players. Also, think of people like Rajat Bhatia, LR Shukla, Stuart Binny, Karn Sharma, Ashish Reddy, Mohit Sharma,Iqbal Abdulla, Kamran Khan, etc. IPL has made a massive difference for them. There are many players who have got repeated opportunities in IPL. There are a few negatives, but there are more positives to look at from a players point of view.
    I'm looking at it from the point of view of grooming players as well as building an Indian team. It's rather hard to build an optimal Indian team from the IPL, because so many Indian players miss as at least half the matches their teams play. Already Rishi Dhawan has been benched for one game, after being the leading FC wicket-taker and also a leading run-scorer in T20s. While one can say overseas captains are not biased, they are also not confident in the Indian player base, which is why an excessive rotation of players takes place, while average or unproven or over-the-hill overseas players are in prominent positions. Let's not forget, Watson's international career was revived by the IPL and David Miller's, kickstarted by it.

    My solution to this is to reduce the squad size, and more importantly, reduce the number of overseas players in each squad, and eventually, the playing XI. That way, the best players can make each side, then eventually learn from the stars, and grow. That's how all the other T20 (and other domestic) leagues across the world work. They breed their own talent, instead of scouting abroad, and buying at princely prices, then hoarding, the way IPL teams do. Fair, that will make the IPL a lot less lucrative, but it will also make it a lot more productive in creating India players.

    Quote Originally Posted by karan316 View Post
    Shrikanth Wagh is a really good bowler and capable of bowling 135+ regularly, I have seen him bowl, I think there are several bowlers like him who need good mentoring. There are many bowlers who are raw, but have serious potential, I have not seen any special effort from the BCCI to manage or groom pace bowlers or pace bowling all rounders even though we need them the most. Some of the names apart from the ones you gave would be Jasprit Bumrah, Sandeep Sharma, Awana, Dhawal Kulkarni, Anureet Singh, Rahul Shukla and Veer Pratap Singh.
    Indeed. However, it's too much to ask of Shrikant Wagh, who's a lot slower than we'd expect a pace bowler to be, to lead the attack and get bagfuls of wickets alone. The likes of Steyn, Morkel, Johnson (current IPL figures notwithstanding), Finn, Umar Gul, bowl fast and can take plenty of wickets to make a difference alone. Wagh, on the other hand, needs to be part of a combined unit to be effective- including one defensive bowler who's also a batsman, and one bowler who can bowl genuinely fast. Jaspreet, Rahul Shukla, Anureet and VP Singh are new, and need more seasons to shape up. All the other blokes are merely seam/swing bowlers, who will struggle because of their lack of pace, on not-so-helpful wickets. They're hardly capable of running through batting sides alone. Sandeep Sharma, supposedly bowling with even less swing than before, but not bowling any faster, will make a good T20/ODI specialist bowler, for now.

  6. #426
    Cricketer Of The Year Arjun's Avatar
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    Over to the forthcoming England tour- who do you think can make the squad from the Ranji performers? I feel Pankaj, Pandey and Rishi Dhawan, all of whom have had two consecutive good seasons, should be in the running. I'm not so sure about Shami, given his dip in form, but since Pankaj has been out of active cricket, Shami may sneak in ahead. Rishi will be useful as the fifth bowler who can score some valuable runs, adding the fifth bowling option. Not so sure about Umesh and Aaron, the best of the fast bowlers, who are rather patchy right now- they need more active cricket. Amongst the batsmen, Uthappa should be a certainty in ODIs, and possibly Tests too- even if he can't replace Dhawan, he should be an easy swap for Vijay. I'm not so sure about Rasool playing in the Test series so soon, when you already have Ashwin, and possibly Ojha or Mishra, but he too can add some runs, and stretch the batting. Focus should be on all-rounders, apart from swing bowlers. We may even see four swing bowlers play for India this time, if the conditions favour it. The likes of Jadhav and Jaggi may play ODIs only.

  7. #427
    International Coach Shri's Avatar
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    Stfu about replacing Vijay already. Did well in SA and deserves to be in the XI till he consistently fails for a bit.

  8. #428
    International Debutant harsh.ag's Avatar
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    Yup, I agree. Vijay and Dhawan are stable for now. Dhawan too showed he was capable of knuckling down in difficult conditions.
    If you were that old, and that kind, and the very last of your kind, you couldn't just stand back and watch children cry.

  9. #429
    International Debutant harsh.ag's Avatar
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    In England, the big spinners of the ball do well. And I think it's time Mishra was given his due, but I would be happy for either of Ojha or Mishra to be selected as the first spinner. No Ashwin please.

    I do agree that we need the new pacers. I would like to see one of Umesh and Aaron on the team and playing a tour match. Bhuvi is going to like England.
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  10. #430
    International Coach Shri's Avatar
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    Give Tambe a go. Mishra loses it under the slightest bit of pressure.

  11. #431
    International Debutant harsh.ag's Avatar
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    Ya, in limited overs cricket. Might be better when given the leeway of tests. Ojha ahead of Tambe surely?

  12. #432
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    I don't think anyone is suggesting Tambe be part of the Test side

  13. #433
    International Coach Shri's Avatar
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    Kuldeep will eventually replace Ojha in tests, mark my words. The left arm leggie who played in the U19 WC recently.

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    Lalit Modi Elected as Rajasthan Cricket Association President, But Only Just | Cricket - News | NDTVSports.com

    And he's back. (Not physically though as he is still in UK absconding waiting for central govt. to change haha.)
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  15. #435
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shri View Post
    Kuldeep will eventually replace Ojha in tests, mark my words. The left arm leggie who played in the U19 WC recently.

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