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Which country has the best 2nd ATG XI side?

Best 2nd ATG XI side?


  • Total voters
    22

harsh.ag

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Here you go. Pick the country with the best 2nd ATG XI side. Couldn't make viable ones for New Zealand and Sri Lanka (and nearly India)

South Africa

Bruce Mitchell
Gary Kirsten (c)
Hashim Amla
AB De Villiers
Daryll Cullinan
Aubrey Faulkner
Jock Cameron (w)
Mike Procter
Garth Le Roux
Vernon Philander
Neil Adcock

Notes: I picked Garth Le Roux over Vincent van der Bijl because I wanted two genuine quick bowlers, and already had similar bowlers in Philander and Procter. Plus Le Roux bats a bit. Herbie Taylor is in my first XI. Faulkner to provide the spin option. Jock Cameron ahead of Mark Boucher. Anybody know a better bat than Cullinan?

West Indies

Conrad Hunte
Frank Worrell
Clyde Walcott
Rohan Kanhai
Shivnarine Chanderpaul
Clive Lloyd (c)
Jackie Hendriks/ Deryck Murray (w)
Andy Roberts
Joel Garner
Alf Valentine
Courtney Walsh

Notes: Very strong on both the bowling and batting fronts. Might consider having a four man pace attack with Wes Hall. Desmond Haynes and Richie Richardson were closest to miss out.

Australia

Matthew Hayden
Arthur Morris
Stan McCabe
Neil Harvey
Allan Border
Steve Waugh (c)
Ian Healy (w)
Alan Davidson
Ray Lindwall
Clarrie Grimmett
Jeff Thomson/ Fred Spofforth

Notes: Strong batting and bowling here. Lots of support bowling options in McCabe, Border and Waugh. Clem Hill, Charles Macartney and Archie Jackson closest to make the cut. Can't pick between Thommo and Spofforth, or for that matter throw in Alderman and Gillespie.

Pakistan

Shoaib Mohammad
Majid Khan
Younis Khan (c)
Zaheer Abbas
Saleem Malik
Asif Iqbal
Moin Khan (w)
Saqlain Mushtaq/Saeed Ajmal
Mushtaq Ahmed
Fazal Mahmood
Shoaib Akhtar

Notes: Pace trio of Fazal, Shoaib and Asif, complemented by both leg and off spin. Batting a little weak (I have Qadir and Mushtaq Mohammad in my first team, so Fazal doesn't make it there. Plus I have a middle order of Inzi, Javed and Yousuf, so Abbas doesn't make it there)

England

Herbert Sutcliffe
Geoff Boycott
Peter May
David Gower
Dennis Compton
Tony Greig (c)
Les Ames (w)
John Snow
Derek Underwood
Bob Willis
Alec Bedser

Notes: Strong batting. Two genuine pacers and lots of variety in the attack. Underwood could be replaced by Verity/Wardle.

India

Vijay Merchant
Gautam Gambhir
VVS Laxman
Mohammad Azharuddin
Dilip Vengsarkar
Gundappa Viswanath
Farooq Engineer (w)
Zaheer Khan
Amar Singh
Bishan Singh Bedi
Bhagwat Chandrasekhar

Notes: Not that strong in either department despite having some strong names.

Which would you say is the strongest side. You are welcome to vote as per your own 2nd XIs as well :)
 
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Coronis

Cricketer Of The Year
Has to be Australia, by a fair way too. I'm interested though, what would be your #1 SA XI? Oh and I thought Harvey generally batted at 3, and McCabe at 4.
 

Red

The normal awards that everyone else has
When ESPN did their ATG thing, the shortlisted middle order players were

Kallis
Herbie Taylor
Cullinan
Nourse
Pollock
DeVilliers

Cullinan probably the one I rate least...
 

Slifer

International Captain
A WI 2nd eleven (going by the first XI picked here at cricketweb) would look like this:

Hunte
Fredricks
Kanhai
Weekes
Lloyd
Worrell*
Dujon+
Bishop
Roberts
Walsh
Gibbs

As good as ne other teams' if u ask me
 

harsh.ag

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Has to be Australia, by a fair way too. I'm interested though, what would be your #1 SA XI? Oh and I thought Harvey generally batted at 3, and McCabe at 4.
My SA 1st XI is: Barry Richards | Graeme Smith (c) | Jacques Kallis | Graeme Pollock | Dudley Nourse | Herbie Taylor | John Waite (w) | Shaun Pollock | Hugh Tayfield | Dale Steyn | Allan Donald

Yup, Harvey at 3 and McCabe at four it should be :)

Slightly surprised at so much Australia love here. Apart from a world class spinner, I think the Windies team matches quite favorably!
 

harsh.ag

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I also think that the strength of a 2nd all time XI really demonstrates how strong a country's cricket history has been.
 

watson

Banned
1. West Indies - Solid Batting line-up with Kanhai at No.3, plus Roberts, Garner, Walsh!
2. England - Very solid batting line-up, plus Snow and Underwood
3. Australia - Solid batting line-up, plus Lindwall and Grimmett
4. Rest
 

harsh.ag

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
A WI 2nd eleven (going by the first XI picked here at cricketweb) would look like this:

Hunte
Fredricks
Kanhai
Weekes
Lloyd
Worrell*
Dujon+
Bishop
Roberts
Walsh
Gibbs

As good as ne other teams' if u ask me
Wes Hall over Bishop, surely?

watson

1. West Indies - Solid Batting line-up with Kanhai at No.3, plus Roberts, Garner, Walsh!
2. England - Very solid batting line-up, plus Snow and Underwood
3. Australia - Solid batting line-up, plus Lindwall and Grimmett
4. Rest​

Australia has Alan Davidson too! They bat deep down until number 9. But Windies batting has Worrell and Walcott, plus Kanhai, Lloyd, and Chanders as well.
 

The Sean

Cricketer Of The Year
What are we counting as the First XI - the original ATG Teams teams picked in the CW exercise? In that case, there are a few guys being picked for various 2nd XIs here (Morris, Border and Walcott are three that stand out, plus whichever of Worrell or Hunte made the original WI team) who made their First XIs and shouldn't be on these lists.
 

Hooksey

Banned
A WI 2nd eleven (going by the first XI picked here at cricketweb) would look like this:

Hunte
Fredricks
Kanhai
Weekes
Lloyd
Worrell*
Dujon+
Bishop
Roberts
Walsh
Gibbs

As good as ne other teams' if u ask me
Plenty to like about that line-up.
 

harsh.ag

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
What are we counting as the First XI - the original ATG Teams teams picked in the CW exercise? In that case, there are a few guys being picked for various 2nd XIs here (Morris, Border and Walcott are three that stand out, plus whichever of Worrell or Hunte made the original WI team) who made their First XIs and shouldn't be on these lists.
These are just mine ones, not based on CW, sorry!
 

The Sean

Cricketer Of The Year
A couple of teams I’ve come up with, excluding those selected by CW in the First XIs. Not that I necessarily agreed with each CW team, but using them as a base for exclusion. Firstly, Australia:

Matthew Hayden
Bob Simpson
Ricky Ponting
Neil Harvey
Stan McCabe
Steve Waugh
Ian Healy
Alan Davidson
Ray Lindwall
Clarrie Grimmett
Fred Spofforth

Waugh, Simpson and McCabe would share fifth bowling duties as there are only four specialist bowlers (but what a quartet!) – the trade-off for having the batting class of SR Waugh at six. One of the things that leaps out about this team is what an extraordinary fielding side it is. I suppose Michael Clarke should probably be at number 5, but I don't like picking teams without Stan McCabe.

I reckon an England Second XI would also take some beating:

WG Grace
Herbert Sutcliffe
Peter May
Kevin Pietersen
KS Ranjitsinjhi
Tony Greig
Les Ames
Alec Bedser
Hedley Verity
Tom Richardson
Brian Statham

I struggled with choosing the all rounder (Rhodes, Woolley?) and the exact bowling combination (Lockwood, Tyson, Underwood and Snow all close) but am very happy with this combination.

While I reckon a West Indian Second XI might look like this:

Frank Worrell
Desmond Haynes
Rohan Kanhai
Everton Weekes
Shivnarine Chanderpaul
Clive Lloyd
Jeff Dujon
Andy Roberts
Wes Hall
Lance Gibbs
Courtney Walsh

Like Australia, only four genuine bowlers with Worrell (who I’ve picked as an opener for balance) and Lloyd having to make up the support options, but it is a superb frontline quartet and despite a long tail, the batting line up is very powerful.

Will have a think about some others if/when I get the chance.
 
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SeamUp

International Coach
Here you go. Pick the country with the best 2nd ATG XI side. Couldn't make viable ones for New Zealand and Sri Lanka (and nearly India)

South Africa

Bruce Mitchell
Gary Kirsten (c)
Hashim Amla
AB De Villiers
Daryll Cullinan
Aubrey Faulkner
Jock Cameron (w)
Mike Procter
Garth Le Roux
Vernon Philander
Neil Adcock

Notes: I picked Garth Le Roux over Vincent van der Bijl because I wanted two genuine quick bowlers, and already had similar bowlers in Philander and Procter. Plus Le Roux bats a bit. Herbie Taylor is in my first XI. Faulkner to provide the spin option. Jock Cameron ahead of Mark Boucher. Anybody know a better bat than Cullinan?

Which would you say is the strongest side. You are welcome to vote as per your own 2nd XIs as well :)
My SA 1st XI is: Barry Richards | Graeme Smith (c) | Jacques Kallis | Graeme Pollock | Dudley Nourse | Herbie Taylor | John Waite (w) | Shaun Pollock | Hugh Tayfield | Dale Steyn | Allan Donald
If we're considering Vince van der Bijl & Garth Le Roux then Jimmy Cook, Henry Fotheringham, Peter Kirsten, Ken McEwan, Clive Rice, Alan Kourie, Stephen Jefferies and the likes can be considered. Basically mentioning the team for the 80's here once some of the first generation of legends were coming to the end of their careers. Obviously some would have played in the 70's if you consider Rice was chosen to tour Australia in 1970 (vd Bijl also).

Two good pieces -

Mark Nicholas - http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/578932.html

Robin Jackman - http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/story/135562.html

I'm not sure I would say Procter and Philander are similar in bowling style other than they both can hold a bat and both take wickets. Procter more erratic in search of wickets and bowled in-swing to right-handers. Not sure if that effects your decision making ?

I suppose other options to consider -

Batsmen: Jackie McGlew, Eric Rowan, Colin Bland, Lee Irvine, Herschelle Gibbs + (Cook, Fotheringham, P. Kirsten, McEwan)

All-rounders: Trevor Goddard, Eddie Barlow (has to come very close to getting into an XI), Brian McMillan. (Clive Rice - one of my favourites - one of the best all-rounders to live)

Keepers: Denis Lindsay & Mark Boucher

Spin: Albert Vogler, Cyril Vincent, Paul Adams (Alan Kourie & Denys Hobson)

Seam: Peter Heine, Peter Pollock, Fanie de Villiers, Makhaya Ntini (Vince Vd Bijl, Stephen Jefferies)
 
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harsh.ag

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
If we're considering Vince van der Bijl & Garth Le Roux then Jimmy Cook, Henry Fotheringham, Peter Kirsten, Ken McEwan, Clive Rice, Alan Kourie, Stephen Jefferies and the likes can be considered. Basically mentioning the team for the 80's here once some of the first generation of legends were coming to the end of their careers. Obviously some would have played in the 70's if you consider Rice was chosen to tour Australia in 1970 (vd Bijl also).

I'm not sure I would say Procter and Philander are similar in bowling style other than they both can hold a bat and both take wickets. Procter more erratic in search of wickets and bowled in-swing to right-handers. Not sure if that effects your decision making ?

I suppose other options to consider -

Batsmen: Jackie McGlew, Eric Rowan, Colin Bland, Lee Irvine, Herschelle Gibbs + (Cook, Fotheringham, P. Kirsten, McEwan)

All-rounders: Trevor Goddard, Eddie Barlow (has to come very close to getting into an XI), Brian McMillan. (Clive Rice - one of my favourites - one of the best all-rounders to live)

Keepers: Denis Lindsay & Mark Boucher

Spin: Albert Vogler, Cyril Vincent, Paul Adams (Alan Kourie & Denys Hobson)

Seam: Peter Heine, Peter Pollock, Fanie de Villiers, Makhaya Ntini (Vince Vd Bijl, Stephen Jefferies)
All the players in bold above were and are very strong contenders for the 2nd SA XI.

When it comes to Clive Rice, it was between him and Aubrey Faulkner, and I couldn't fit him in, plus I needed a spin option, and I don't Paul Adams + Clive Rice is a poorer combo than Faulkner + Le Roux/van der Bijl. Lindsay and Boucher really give Cameron a tough fight and I would not mind replacing him with either of them. Trevor Goddard could get in ahead of Gary Kirsten maybe, but not in my book.

Fanie de Villiers and Peter Pollock have legitimate claims to be in their, and so, let's say I have Neil Adcock and Mike Procter there for sure. Then pick two out of:

Garth Le Roux
Vernon Philander
Vincent van der Bijl
Peter Pollock
Fannie de Villiers

Tough choices. I went for the first two, as Le Roux is a quick guy and bats a bit and Philander is rocking it. I think Peter Pollock has a good case.
 
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SeamUp

International Coach
All the players in bold above were and are very strong contenders for the 2nd SA XI.

When it comes to Clive Rice, it was between him and Aubrey Faulkner, and I couldn't fit him in, plus I needed a spin option, and I don't Paul Adams + Clive Rice is a poorer combo than Faulkner + Le Roux/van der Bijl. Lindsay and Boucher really give Cameron a tough fight and I would not mind replacing him with either of them. Trevor Goddard could get in ahead of Gary Kirsten maybe, but not in my book.

Fanie de Villiers and Peter Pollock have legitimate claims to be in their, and so, let's say I have Neil Adcock and Mike Procter there for sure. Then pick two out of:

Garth Le Roux
Vernon Philander
Vincent van der Bijl
Peter Pollock
Fannie de Villiers

Tough choices. I went for the first two, as Le Roux is a quick guy and bats a bit and Philander is rocking it. I think Peter Pollock has a good case.
I like your selections and we all have our different choices and you have good reasoning behind your selections for balance purposes as well.

Probably would find a place for Barlow somewhere in there though. Bruce or Gary struggling but its always tough.
 
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