Which country has the best 2nd ATG XI side?

[OverratedSanity]

Here you go. Pick the country with the best 2nd ATG XI side. Couldn't make viable ones for New Zealand and Sri Lanka (and nearly India)


India

Vijay Merchant
Gautam Gambhir
VVS Laxman
Mohammad Azharuddin
Dilip Vengsarkar
Gundappa Viswanath
Farooq Engineer (w)
Zaheer Khan
Amar Singh
Bishan Singh Bedi
Bhagwat Chandrasekhar

What about Mohinder Amarnath? He doesn't even make the 2nd best ATG side of India? How is it that Dilip Vengsarkar is a superior test player than Jimmy? IMO Mohinder should be there in the best Indian team of All Time (specially if it is playing outside India, barring England may be...having said that the guy never really got a fair chance to play against England in England)...

How come both VVS and Azharuddin don't make the first XI, I'd have atleast one of them in there, most of the time VVS because he isn't a lying, cheating sack of ****

 

[OverratedSanity]

Here's how my Indian XIs go:

First XI:
Sunil Gavaskar
Virender Sehwag
Rahul Dravid
Sachin Tendulkar
VVS Laxman
Vijay Hazare
MS Dhoni (w)
Kapil Dev
Anil Kumble
Zaheer Khan
Javagal Srinath


Wanted either Nissar or Amar Singh in there, but they didn't play enough, and Zaheer's efforts to single handedly carry the attack on his shoulders for 5-6 years and take us to No. 1 is very overlooked, sadly. He was quite magnificent albeit not for long enough

Second XI:

Viyat Merchant
Gautam Gambhir
Polly Umrigar
Gundappa Viswanath
Mohammad Azharuddin
Vinoo Mankad
Farokh Engineer (w)
Amar Singh
Mohammad Nissar
Bishen Singh Bedi
Subhash Gupte

 

[harsh.ag]

How come both VVS and Azharuddin don't make the first XI, I'd have atleast one of them in there, most of the time VVS because he isn't a lying, cheating sack of ****

Well first XI has a middle order of - Dravid | Sachin | Hazare | Dhoni | Mankad |

You could consider leaving out Mankad for a specialist bat, but I think this is better. I would take Hazare over Azhar any day, but VVS comes close, I must say.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Well first XI has a middle order of - Dravid | Sachin | Hazare | Dhoni | Mankad |

You could consider leaving out Mankad for a specialist bat, but I think this is better. I would take Hazare over Azhar any day, but VVS comes close, I must say.

Fair enough.
And I really think Laxman's reputation will only grow with time. The number of times he bailed India out virtually on his own is quite amazing... Yeah he threw away his wicket too, which is why he has a poor century count, but I'd say few cricketers in the history of the game have rescued their side as often as Laxman did, especially during India's rise to No. 1. Jeez, how good was he in 2010?

 

[OverratedSanity]

Here's how my Indian XIs go:

First XI:
Sunil Gavaskar
Virender Sehwag
Rahul Dravid
Sachin Tendulkar
VVS Laxman
Viyat Hazare
MS Dhoni (w)
Kapil Dev
Anil Kumble
Zaheer Khan
Javagal Srinath


Wanted either Nissar or Anwar Singh in there, but they didn't play enough, and Zaheer's efforts to single handedly carry the attack on his shoulders for 5-6 years and take us to No. 1 is very overlooked, sadly. He was quite magnificent albeit not for long enough

Second XI:

Viyat Merchant
Gautam Gambhir
Polly Umrigar
Gundappa Viswanath
Mohammad Azharuddin
Vinoo Mankad
Farokh Engineer (w)
Amar Singh
Mohammad Nissar
Bishen Singh Bedi
Subhash Gupte

 

[sumantra]

For a while in the mid 80s, Vengsarkar was in the top 3 batsmen in the world. This during a time of Viv, Border, Crowe, Miandad, Gower, Gooch. So I will have him as a bat ahead of Jimmy. Jimmy's away form was special, I agree with you. But the inconsistency was special too. He is right behind Vengsarkar, though, I agree.

few notes
1. Does it mean that Dilip Vengsarkar is a better player than Amarnath because for a while in the 80's he was in the top 3 batsmen in the world? I didn't get the logic there...

2. Jimmy's inconsistency was special means what really? By saying that are you also saying that he had put up good performances as well? sometimes? Frankly Vengsarkar was consistently poor in his performances all through his career (specially if you are talking about quality fast bowling outside India). Yes, Vengsarkar did well in England (though Jimmy never got a fare share of matches in England, only 4 in a career spanning over 2 decades, while Dilip had 13 matches there), though it can't be compared with that of Jimmy because of inadequacy, still if this team plays in England, I will keep Vengsarkar ahead of Jimmy. I will do the same if the team plays in India as well (Dilip Vengsarkar was a home giant of Indian cricket, you can, of course, find few others as well). But what about West Indies? Australia? Pakistan? here is a look.

Dilip Vengsarkar

In West Indies Against West Indies

M I N.O 50 100 best runs avg
11 18 0 3 0 94 449 24.94

In Australia Against Australia

17 28 2 4 0 78 746 28.59

In Pakistan Against Pakistan

11 17 2 5 0 89 503 33.53

Overall (in these 3 countries)

39 63 4 12 0 94 1698 28.77

--------------------------------------------------------

Mohinder Amarnath

In West Indies Against West Indies

M I N.O 50 100 best runs avg

9 16 0 6 2 117 877 54.81

In Australia Against Australia

8 13 1 3 2 138 668 55.67

In Pakistan Against Pakistan

11 18 3 4 4 120 856 57.07

Overall

28 47 4 13 8 138 2401 55.83


Amarnath scored 703 runs more than Vengsarkar playing 11 tests and 16 less innings in these 3 countries in their own den. And here we are talking about some of the best bowling sides that have ever played the game, specially West Indies in the 70's and 80's, Pakistan with Imran and co. and Australia with Lilee and Thompson in their own backyard. And we don't have a case of comparison between the performances of Vengsarkar and Amarnath. Jimmy just stands far far taller. In fact Vengsarkar never even got a century in these 3 countries even after playing 39 test matches!!! what a supreme consistency...

To cut the crap short, if the match is played in India or in England, Dilip Vengsarkar.
Anywhere else in the world, Mohinder Amarnath.

Overall, Mohinder Amarnath, because of his far superior performances against the best bowling sides of his time (and probably of all times).