View Poll Results: Greatest Match-Winner in the Australian Team of the 1990s-2000s?

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  • Glenn McGrath

    26 65.00%
  • Shane Warne

    9 22.50%
  • Ricky Ponting

    2 5.00%
  • Adam Gilchrist

    2 5.00%
  • Other

    1 2.50%
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Thread: Who was the biggest match-winner in the great Australian side?

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ikki View Post
    This is the kind of reply I was waiting to get, but thought I'd wait for someone to make it before I spend any time with a response to flatten that notion. The above is just an interesting aside but lacks any context for discussing the actual tests involved. Only someone who didn't watch the series or is just interested in a snide response would even bring it up.

    No one who watched that series came out with the notion of "whew, nevermind Warne who just had one of the greatest series of all time and almost carried the team to a win; McGrath just proved how much of a match-winner he is!"

    McGrath played 3 tests, 1 win, 2 draws. But let's look closely.

    1st Test:

    1st innings: England skittle Australia out for 190. McGrath has an imperious opening, decimating the first 5 wickets for 21 runs. Lee and Warne get the rest - of particular importance Warne getting Pietersen who had started to get on top as England were getting close to our total. Australia limit England to 155 and go in 35 runs ahead.

    2nd innings: Australia bat very well for the 3rd innings, adding 384 to the lead to give England 420 to chase with about 2 and a half days remaining. McGrath takes 4 in the second, but none in the top or middle order (GJ @ 7). Instead, as England build an 80 run opening partnership without a loss, Warne and Lee come in to take care of any glimmer of hope England were looking to have.

    This is a Test where I'd agree that McGrath showed his match-winning capability with his 1st inning blitz, although, it's probably overstated as people tend to point to this innings and ignore much of the rest of the series.

    3rd Test:

    1st innings: England build a big 1st innings total of 444. McGrath goes 0/88, Warne and Lee 4 each. Australian batsmen, however, only manage a disappointing 302. That too in large part because Warne top-scored for the Australians with 90 runs.

    2nd innings: England go in to bat already 142 runs ahead and looking to add quick runs to get Australia in with a decent enough total and enough time to win the match. McGrath takes 5/115, however going for over 5 runs an over. Warne goes wicketless as England declare with 4 wickets in hand and another 280 runs added to the total.

    Australia have to go bat the last innings chasing 423. This inning was notable for Ponting's incredble 156, almost batting out the day to save the match. Warne again helps with the bat with an important 34. Ultimately, England run out of time needing only 1 wicket to win.

    McGrath was not close to Warne in terms of importance in this game. McGrath took 5/201, Warne 4/173, yet Warne was also the 2nd highest run scorer for Australia with 124 runs with the bat (Ponting 163 runs). Without Warne and Ponting Australia had no chance to draw.

    5th Test:

    1st innings: England open the batting, putting up 373. McGrath takes 2/72; Warne takes 6/122. That doesn't show that of the top and middle order batsmen, McGrath only took Flintoff. English batsmen 1-5 were taken by Warne as McGrath struggled to break through. Australia put on 367 and aim to bowl England out cheaply for any hope to win the Test and retain the Ashes.

    2nd innings: No mystery here, we didn't manage to win and hence lost the ashes. This innings though, McGrath helps out, and both he and Warne take out the top 7; and for a moment it look like we might be able to pull it off. McGrath finishes for 3/85 for the inning and Warne again takes 6 wickets for 120 odd.

    Again, how could you even possibly argue that McGrath shared near the importance Warne did in such a match? The rain effectively guaranteed a draw but if not for that we may have even had a chance to win it because of Warne.

    Now, these were just the matches that McGrath played. There were two other matches where without him Australia almost won, because of Warne. In the 2nd Test Warne took 10 wickets. Possibly just as important, he scored 50 runs; 42 of them in the 2nd innings stand with Lee and Clarke. We fall just 2 runs short of winning the game when Harmison takes Kasperwicz as Australia looked to win, without McGrath.

    In the other Test McGrath didn't play (the 4th Test); Warne takes 8/133. England ended up winning by 3 wickets, even though they only needed to chase 129 runs. Warne and Lee were working miracles in that last inning and if the Aussie batsmen weren't so pathetic and had given England more than 129 to chase, we may have done it as the English top 7 were gone; only GJ and the tailenders remained.

    Watching this series was amazing. It was incredible drama in almost every session. And the one guy that kept popping up and giving us a shot and performing miracles was Warne. To even suggest that McGrath came out that series on even equal footing - even considering the matches he played - with Warne is ridiculous. If Lee had the same series in terms of injury and correspondence with the results (let's say McGrath and Warne were fit instead) and in the Tests he played we didn't lose...anyone suggesting Lee was a bigger match-winner because we didn't lose in those Tests would be laughed out the room.
    Sorry, I'm not buying this. McGrath was clearly recovering from injury for the 3rd and 5th test.

    Warne was in the best form of his life, yet without a fit McGrath, yet England were still able to score 400+ on the first day for the 2nd, 3rd and 4th tests, giving them the momentum to win the series. That would have been inconceivable if McGrath were fit and available, especially after he wrecked England in the first test.
    marc71178 likes this.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by benchmark00 View Post
    Hayden went through a period where he was the best player in the world. During that time he bullied opposition into submission, and by the time he was out their backs were broken and the rest of the batting order were left to pick at the carcus.

    Bloke is a grade A cock, but he was phenomenal when on. Reckon he played his part in winning Australia plenty of matches.
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  3. #78
    International Vice-Captain Riggins's Avatar
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    Yeah I think that was a typo, benchy meant a grade A cook.
    The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament.

  4. #79
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    believe haydos was the creator of the zinger pie itbt


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    smalishah84 likes this.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by subshakerz View Post
    Sorry, I'm not buying this. McGrath was clearly recovering from injury for the 3rd and 5th test.

    Warne was in the best form of his life, yet without a fit McGrath, yet England were still able to score 400+ on the first day for the 2nd, 3rd and 4th tests, giving them the momentum to win the series. That would have been inconceivable if McGrath were fit and available, especially after he wrecked England in the first test.
    LOL, do you actually think McGrath has never conceded 400+ on the first day? It happened in the very next series against WI and again against England in the next Ashes in Australia.

    It wasn't Warne that didn't restrict them, it was everybody else. Apart from Warne and McGrath all the other bowlers averaged 40+ for that series. So without McGrath, he is bowling with a Bangladesh level support and still almost winning those Tests. Warne took 40 wickets in a 5 Test series at a ridiculous average and SR...McGrath hasn't ever had a series like that. If Warne was bowling consecutively at both ends you'd have a point.

    And if McGrath being injured is now a reason for why he didn't bowl well...then why would you use Ashes 05 as an example of his match-winning? You can't say that in the matches he played we didn't lose to point out how important he was then claim that you can't use his bad form against him because he wasn't fit in those very matches. Make up your minds.
    Last edited by Ikki; 12-09-2013 at 09:53 AM.
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    Darren Lehmann. Australia won over 80% of the tests he played in.
    ATG World XI
    1. J.B Hobbs 2. H. Sutcliffe 3. D.G Bradman 4. W.R Hammond 5. G.S Sobers 6. M.J Procter 7. A.C Gilchrist 8. M.D Marshall 9. S.K Warne 10. M. Muralitharan 11. G.D McGrath

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ikki View Post
    LOL, do you actually think McGrath has never conceded 400+ on the first day? It happened in the very next series against WI and again against England in the next Ashes in Australia.

    It wasn't Warne that didn't restrict them, it was everybody else. Apart from Warne and McGrath all the other bowlers averaged 40+ for that series. So without McGrath, he is bowling with a Bangladesh level support and still almost winning those Tests. Warne took 40 wickets in a 5 Test series at a ridiculous average and SR...McGrath hasn't ever had a series like that. If Warne was bowling consecutively at both ends you'd have a point.
    No way England would have been able to run away with 400+ on first day for 3 consecutive tests if McGrath was fit and available, especially after the way McGrath schooled them in the first test. The fact that they managed to do so despite Warne bowling so well simply shows how important McGrath was in setting the tone, leading the attack and keeping the pressure. His performance affected the entire attack, you miss this point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikki View Post
    And if McGrath being injured is now a reason for why he didn't bowl well...then why would you use Ashes 05 as an example of his match-winning? You can't say that in the matches he played we didn't lose to point out how important he was then claim that you can't use his bad form against him because he wasn't fit in those very matches. Make up your minds.
    No need to confuse the issue. The point is simply to show that when either McGrath is out of the attack (2nd and 4th tests) or isnt match fit (3rd test), basically when a fit McGrath is unavailable, Australia's attack took a big hit and England were able to dictate terms rather easily on the opening mornings.

    We use the Ashes 2005 as a great example because the contrast between the quality of Australia's attack in the 1st test with a fit McGrath and the rest of the series was so stark.
    marc71178 likes this.

  9. #84
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    In reply, McGrath simply was the most important player in ensuring Australia stayed at the top. It is no coincidence that Australia became no.1 by beating West Indies in 1995, the same series McGrath came of age as a world class bowler. Since then, McGrath took the new ball and Australia dominated. It should be noted that Warne was bowling very well since 1993 but Australia only became no.1 when McGrath truly emerged.

    McGrath's importance is beyond mere statistics. He was the leader of the attack. By virtue of being opening bowler, he set the pressure from the beginning regardless of whether he took early wickets or not. The very sight of McGrath with the new ball demoralized opponents, as they knew they were in for a struggle and runs would be hard to come by. He gave the space for the rest of the bowling lineup, like to Lee and Gillespie, to breath and attack.

    McGrath was a machine. Unlike Warne, he was equally dangerous on the first day or last day, relied less on pitch conditions and was more consistent. He targetted the big fish, like Tendulkar and Lara, both of whom had the advantage over Warne. What an asset for a captain to have a opening bowler who can produce quality day in, day out on any type of surface.
    kyear2, Adders, Slifer and 3 others like this.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by subshakerz View Post
    In reply, McGrath simply was the most important player in ensuring Australia stayed at the top. It is no coincidence that Australia became no.1 by beating West Indies in 1995, the same series McGrath came of age as a world class bowler. Since then, McGrath took the new ball and Australia dominated. It should be noted that Warne was bowling very well since 1993 but Australia only became no.1 when McGrath truly emerged.

    McGrath's importance is beyond mere statistics. He was the leader of the attack. By virtue of being opening bowler, he set the pressure from the beginning regardless of whether he took early wickets or not. The very sight of McGrath with the new ball demoralized opponents, as they knew they were in for a struggle and runs would be hard to come by. He gave the space for the rest of the bowling lineup, like to Lee and Gillespie, to breath and attack.

    McGrath was a machine. Unlike Warne, he was equally dangerous on the first day or last day, relied less on pitch conditions and was more consistent. He targetted the big fish, like Tendulkar and Lara, both of whom had the advantage over Warne. What an asset for a captain to have a opening bowler who can produce quality day in, day out on any type of surface.
    Lots of excellent points there.
    Aus. XI
    Simpson^ | Hayden | Bradman | Chappell^ | Ponting | Border* | Gilchrist+ | Davidson3 | Warne4^ | Lillee1 | McGrath2


    W.I. XI
    Greenidge | Hunte | Richards^ | Headley* | Lara^ | Sobers5^ | Walcott+ | Marshall1 | Ambrose2 | Holding3 | Garner4

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  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by subshakerz View Post
    In reply, McGrath simply was the most important player in ensuring Australia stayed at the top. It is no coincidence that Australia became no.1 by beating West Indies in 1995, the same series McGrath came of age as a world class bowler. Since then, McGrath took the new ball and Australia dominated. It should be noted that Warne was bowling very well since 1993 but Australia only became no.1 when McGrath truly emerged.

    McGrath's importance is beyond mere statistics. He was the leader of the attack. By virtue of being opening bowler, he set the pressure from the beginning regardless of whether he took early wickets or not. The very sight of McGrath with the new ball demoralized opponents, as they knew they were in for a struggle and runs would be hard to come by. He gave the space for the rest of the bowling lineup, like to Lee and Gillespie, to breath and attack.

    McGrath was a machine. Unlike Warne, he was equally dangerous on the first day or last day, relied less on pitch conditions and was more consistent. He targetted the big fish, like Tendulkar and Lara, both of whom had the advantage over Warne. What an asset for a captain to have a opening bowler who can produce quality day in, day out on any type of surface.
    AWTA completely and i mentioned as much in my opening post. I said it b4 and I'll say it again, without Mcgrath I doubt Oz would have had the upper hand vs the WI in the 90s.
    Cause Slifer said so.........!!!!

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by subshakerz View Post
    In reply, McGrath simply was the most important player in ensuring Australia stayed at the top. It is no coincidence that Australia became no.1 by beating West Indies in 1995, the same series McGrath came of age as a world class bowler. Since then, McGrath took the new ball and Australia dominated. It should be noted that Warne was bowling very well since 1993 but Australia only became no.1 when McGrath truly emerged.

    McGrath's importance is beyond mere statistics. He was the leader of the attack. By virtue of being opening bowler, he set the pressure from the beginning regardless of whether he took early wickets or not. The very sight of McGrath with the new ball demoralized opponents, as they knew they were in for a struggle and runs would be hard to come by. He gave the space for the rest of the bowling lineup, like to Lee and Gillespie, to breath and attack.

    McGrath was a machine. Unlike Warne, he was equally dangerous on the first day or last day, relied less on pitch conditions and was more consistent. He targetted the big fish, like Tendulkar and Lara, both of whom had the advantage over Warne. What an asset for a captain to have a opening bowler who can produce quality day in, day out on any type of surface.
    AWTA completely and i mentioned as much in my opening post. I said it b4 and I'll say it again, without Mcgrath I doubt Oz would have had the upper hand vs the WI in the 90s.

  13. #88
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    you dont get them too much better than Glenn ****ing McGrath
    And smalishah's avatar is the most classy one by far Jan certainly echoes the sentiments of CW

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