View Poll Results: Greatest Match-Winner in the Australian Team of the 1990s-2000s?

Voters
40. You may not vote on this poll
  • Glenn McGrath

    26 65.00%
  • Shane Warne

    9 22.50%
  • Ricky Ponting

    2 5.00%
  • Adam Gilchrist

    2 5.00%
  • Other

    1 2.50%
Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 88
Like Tree20Likes

Thread: Who was the biggest match-winner in the great Australian side?

  1. #31
    School Boy/Girl Cricketer
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    London
    Posts
    59
    Have to give it to McGrath. Not only did he perform consistently against most countries home and away, he also had top batsmen like Lara and Tendulkar under control. His absence clearly had a negative impact in major Test matches/series Australia lost.

  2. #32
    U19 12th Man
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Unzud (aka NZ)
    Posts
    279
    John Buchanan

  3. #33
    Cricket Spectator
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Derby England
    Posts
    40
    Why is Stephen Waugh not an option? In the 90s he was Australia's and the world best player and was a big match winner. In the 00s I'd say McGrath or Warne.
    Dream Team since 1970-2012 1.Smith 2.Hayden 3.Ponting (C) 4.Lara 5.Richards 6.Kallis 7.Gilchrist(WK) 8.Warne 9.Ambrose 10.Lillee 11.McGrath 12th man Tendulkar

    Dream Team 1870-1970 1.Hobbs 2.Hutton 3.Bradman (C) 4.Hammond 5.Miller 6.Sobers 7.Oldield(WK)8.Lindwall 9.Trueman 10.Barnes 11.O'Reilly 12th man Weekes

  4. #34
    International Debutant harsh.ag's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    India
    Posts
    2,332
    Quote Originally Posted by Geoffboycott View Post
    Why is Stephen Waugh not an option? In the 90s he was Australia's and the world best player and was a big match winner. In the 00s I'd say McGrath or Warne.
    Others is an option and I considered putting him up there, but decided against it at the last moment.
    If you were that old, and that kind, and the very last of your kind, you couldn't just stand back and watch children cry.


  5. #35
    State Regular GuyFromLancs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Lancashire
    Posts
    946
    My heart tells me Warne; my head (and the 05 Ashes) tell me McGrath.
    World XI Since 1990 -

    1. Gooch 2. Dravid 3. Ponting 4. Tendulkar 5. Lara 6. Kallis 7. Gilchrist 8. Akram 9. Warne 10. Ambrose 11. McGrath

  6. #36
    International Coach Ikki's Avatar
    Cricket Champion! Jackpot Champion!
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Death Queen Island
    Posts
    12,640
    The 05 Ashes tell you McGrath?
    ★★★★★

  7. #37
    International Debutant Adders's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    HMP Oz.
    Posts
    2,380
    Quote Originally Posted by Ikki View Post
    The 05 Ashes tell you McGrath?
    What??, you don't think the 2005 Ashes is a good example to highlight why McGrath was the ultimate match winner??

  8. #38
    International Coach Ikki's Avatar
    Cricket Champion! Jackpot Champion!
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Death Queen Island
    Posts
    12,640
    Quote Originally Posted by Adders View Post
    What??, you don't think the 2005 Ashes is a good example to highlight why McGrath was the ultimate match winner??
    Not if you consider there was another guy on his team who took 40 wickets and had one of the greatest bowling performances of all-time.
    hendrix likes this.

  9. #39
    Eyes not spreadsheets marc71178's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    England
    Posts
    57,685
    Yet you lost the series and the only games you lost were when McGrath wasn't there so the 40 wickets thing is irrelevant.
    marc71178 - President and founding member of AAAS - we don't only appreciate when he does well, but also when he's not quite so good!

    Anyone want to join the Society?

    Beware the evils of Kit-Kats - they're immoral apparently.

  10. #40
    International Debutant Adders's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    HMP Oz.
    Posts
    2,380
    Quote Originally Posted by Ikki View Post
    Not if you consider there was another guy on his team who took 40 wickets and had one of the greatest bowling performances of all-time.
    Pretty much what Mark said.

    Look at the title of the thread, I agree Warnes performance was one of the greatest ever............didn't win you anything though. If McGrath hadn't have missed 2 tests there is absolutely no doubt in my mind the Aussies would not have lost that series. I think the performances and the results clearly indicate who was the more valuable (for that series at least)

  11. #41
    International Coach Ikki's Avatar
    Cricket Champion! Jackpot Champion!
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Death Queen Island
    Posts
    12,640
    Quote Originally Posted by marc71178 View Post
    Yet you lost the series and the only games you lost were when McGrath wasn't there so the 40 wickets thing is irrelevant.
    This is the kind of reply I was waiting to get, but thought I'd wait for someone to make it before I spend any time with a response to flatten that notion. The above is just an interesting aside but lacks any context for discussing the actual tests involved. Only someone who didn't watch the series or is just interested in a snide response would even bring it up.

    No one who watched that series came out with the notion of "whew, nevermind Warne who just had one of the greatest series of all time and almost carried the team to a win; McGrath just proved how much of a match-winner he is!"

    McGrath played 3 tests, 1 win, 2 draws. But let's look closely.

    1st Test:

    1st innings: England skittle Australia out for 190. McGrath has an imperious opening, decimating the first 5 wickets for 21 runs. Lee and Warne get the rest - of particular importance Warne getting Pietersen who had started to get on top as England were getting close to our total. Australia limit England to 155 and go in 35 runs ahead.

    2nd innings: Australia bat very well for the 3rd innings, adding 384 to the lead to give England 420 to chase with about 2 and a half days remaining. McGrath takes 4 in the second, but none in the top or middle order (GJ @ 7). Instead, as England build an 80 run opening partnership without a loss, Warne and Lee come in to take care of any glimmer of hope England were looking to have.

    This is a Test where I'd agree that McGrath showed his match-winning capability with his 1st inning blitz, although, it's probably overstated as people tend to point to this innings and ignore much of the rest of the series.

    3rd Test:

    1st innings: England build a big 1st innings total of 444. McGrath goes 0/88, Warne and Lee 4 each. Australian batsmen, however, only manage a disappointing 302. That too in large part because Warne top-scored for the Australians with 90 runs.

    2nd innings: England go in to bat already 142 runs ahead and looking to add quick runs to get Australia in with a decent enough total and enough time to win the match. McGrath takes 5/115, however going for over 5 runs an over. Warne goes wicketless as England declare with 4 wickets in hand and another 280 runs added to the total.

    Australia have to go bat the last innings chasing 423. This inning was notable for Ponting's incredble 156, almost batting out the day to save the match. Warne again helps with the bat with an important 34. Ultimately, England run out of time needing only 1 wicket to win.

    McGrath was not close to Warne in terms of importance in this game. McGrath took 5/201, Warne 4/173, yet Warne was also the 2nd highest run scorer for Australia with 124 runs with the bat (Ponting 163 runs). Without Warne and Ponting Australia had no chance to draw.

    5th Test:

    1st innings: England open the batting, putting up 373. McGrath takes 2/72; Warne takes 6/122. That doesn't show that of the top and middle order batsmen, McGrath only took Flintoff. English batsmen 1-5 were taken by Warne as McGrath struggled to break through. Australia put on 367 and aim to bowl England out cheaply for any hope to win the Test and retain the Ashes.

    2nd innings: No mystery here, we didn't manage to win and hence lost the ashes. This innings though, McGrath helps out, and both he and Warne take out the top 7; and for a moment it look like we might be able to pull it off. McGrath finishes for 3/85 for the inning and Warne again takes 6 wickets for 120 odd.

    Again, how could you even possibly argue that McGrath shared near the importance Warne did in such a match? The rain effectively guaranteed a draw but if not for that we may have even had a chance to win it because of Warne.

    Now, these were just the matches that McGrath played. There were two other matches where without him Australia almost won, because of Warne. In the 2nd Test Warne took 10 wickets. Possibly just as important, he scored 50 runs; 42 of them in the 2nd innings stand with Lee and Clarke. We fall just 2 runs short of winning the game when Harmison takes Kasperwicz as Australia looked to win, without McGrath.

    In the other Test McGrath didn't play (the 4th Test); Warne takes 8/133. England ended up winning by 3 wickets, even though they only needed to chase 129 runs. Warne and Lee were working miracles in that last inning and if the Aussie batsmen weren't so pathetic and had given England more than 129 to chase, we may have done it as the English top 7 were gone; only GJ and the tailenders remained.

    Watching this series was amazing. It was incredible drama in almost every session. And the one guy that kept popping up and giving us a shot and performing miracles was Warne. To even suggest that McGrath came out that series on even equal footing - even considering the matches he played - with Warne is ridiculous. If Lee had the same series in terms of injury and correspondence with the results (let's say McGrath and Warne were fit instead) and in the Tests he played we didn't lose...anyone suggesting Lee was a bigger match-winner because we didn't lose in those Tests would be laughed out the room.
    Last edited by Ikki; 10-09-2013 at 06:49 AM.

  12. #42
    International Coach Ikki's Avatar
    Cricket Champion! Jackpot Champion!
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Death Queen Island
    Posts
    12,640
    Quote Originally Posted by Adders View Post
    Pretty much what Mark said.

    Look at the title of the thread, I agree Warnes performance was one of the greatest ever............didn't win you anything though. If McGrath hadn't have missed 2 tests there is absolutely no doubt in my mind the Aussies would not have lost that series. I think the performances and the results clearly indicate who was the more valuable (for that series at least)
    Read my post. Even without McGrath, all Warne needed was the batsmen to have an "average" series for their own ability and we would have won it. Warne outperformed McGrath whether he featured or not.

    McGrath has many examples of being a great match-winner...Ashes 2005 wasn't one of them.
    Last edited by Ikki; 10-09-2013 at 06:45 AM.

  13. #43
    State Regular GuyFromLancs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Lancashire
    Posts
    946
    It would be interesting to see how many wickets and at what average McGrath took against England. And how top-order heavy his wickets were.

    I suspect lots; very low; and significantly.

  14. #44
    State Regular GuyFromLancs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Lancashire
    Posts
    946
    Just checked statsguru - McGrath took 157 wickets in 30 matches against us, at an average of 20.92.

    Warne played 36 matches, and took 195 at 23.25.

    So the stats are kind of comparable, with neither blatently on top of the other.

    Obviously 05 belonged to Warne.

  15. #45
    State Regular GuyFromLancs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Lancashire
    Posts
    946
    India is a kind of litmus test. You might expect McGrath would struggle on the sub-continent, but

    Warne took 34 wickets at 43.11

    McGrath 33 at 21.30.

    Unbelivable really. McGrath was off the scale!

Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast


Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Predict Match Winner & Win T-Shirt Everyday
    By vickramhx in forum Cricket Chat
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 18-09-2012, 06:38 AM
  2. Replies: 60
    Last Post: 27-08-2005, 12:54 AM
  3. Replies: 137
    Last Post: 29-03-2005, 06:36 PM
  4. tendulkar not a match winner>>Imran
    By godofcricket in forum Cricket Chat
    Replies: 120
    Last Post: 28-03-2005, 11:02 PM
  5. Replies: 40
    Last Post: 22-03-2005, 02:22 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •