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Thread: CA slams 'bigotry' against Ahmed

  1. #121
    Global Moderator Fusion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBrumby View Post
    Nah, the deeper the cushion, the sweeter the pushin'.

    But suppose I did, it would depend what I insisted on as a result of it to my way of thinking. If I asked not to share an office with a tubby lass then I'd say she has a right to know that why I'm asking her to be moved.

    So if (say) Michael Clarke, who's unquestionably the most secure in his test position currently, demanded Fawad was dropped because he objected to sharing a dressing room with Asians and the selectors acquiesced, surely if the question is asked at some presser the public then have a right to know?
    As Benchy has pointed out, the difference is that Fawad’s religious views are not harming another person. If those views were to adversely affect someone (as with your Clarke example) then it should unquestionably be not tolerated and be illegal.

    I think the biggest thing to consider is that all three parties directly involved (Fawad, CA, and VB) are ok with the compromise, at least publically. I think this compromise is a very mature and sensible way to handle this situation. If they are ok with it, then why should anyone else’s knickers be in a twist? The interesting scenario to me would have been if VB had insisted on Fawad wearing the logo. In that case, I would’ve labeled them the highest **** possible, but it would’ve been their right to insist on it. In that scenario, Fawad can either grudgingly wear the shirt or if he believes that strongly against it, not be part of the team. I certainly wouldn’t have advocated that a law be passed to grant him a religious exemption and CA be forced to accommodate him. Fortunately we don’t have to face that issue as it seems sensible people are in charge. So again, what’s the problem?
    Last edited by Fusion; 10-09-2013 at 09:20 AM.
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  2. #122
    Englishman BoyBrumby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fusion View Post
    As Benchy has pointed out, the difference is that Fawad’s religious views are not harming another person. If those views were to adversely affect someone (as with your Clarke example) then it should unquestionably be not tolerated and be illegal.

    I think the biggest thing to consider is that all three parties directly involved (Fawad, CA, and VB) are ok with the compromise, at least publically. I think this compromise is a very mature and sensible way to handle this situation. If they are ok with it, then why should anyone else’s knickers be in a twist? The interesting scenario to me would have been if VB had insisted on Fawad wearing the logo. In that case, I would’ve labeled them the highest **** possible, but it would’ve been their right to insist on it. In that scenario, Fawad can either grudgingly wear the shirt or if he believes that strongly against it, not be part of the team. I certainly wouldn’t have advocated that a law be passed to grant him a religious exemption and CA be forced to accommodate him. Fortunately we don’t have to face that issue as it seems sensible people are in charge. So again, what’s the problem?
    None with this specific instance.

    I was pointing out that "personal moral objections being none of the public's business" isn't a hard and fast rule of thumb I could unambiguously sign up to.

    Ultimately when players are selected for a national side they are, in some small way, representing their country and its supporters. I wouldn't go so far as to say the public has a right to know, but were I a non-white fan of the Springboks and the team had a player in it like Geo Cronje who'd refused to share a room with a non-white teammate I think I'd probably want that information before I offered my support or parted with my money for tickets.
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  3. #123
    Hall of Fame Member Furball's Avatar
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    What is it with the Cronje family and being prize ****s?

  4. #124
    Cricketer Of The Year Agent Nationaux's Avatar
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    How was Fawad being religiously persecuted back in Pakistan? His views seem like that of any other religious Pakistani.

    I agree that religion shouldn't be free from criticism. If one's political views can be criticised then so can religion and you just have to deal with it because that is what belief is all about.
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  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by andyc View Post
    People seem to be glossing over the fact here that CA brought this up with Fawad first - no doubt as part of their efforts to be more accommodating to those of Asian descent - rather than him approaching CA asking for it to be taken off. Is it even clear whether he would've said anything had CA not brought it up? Do any of his domestic teams have similar sponsorship?
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  6. #126
    Cricket Web Staff Member Burgey's Avatar
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    Would rather have someone in the squad who who objects to the VB logo than a dolt who mistakenly kisses that logo instead of the national coat of arms when he takes a wicket.
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  7. #127
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  8. #128
    Dan
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Nationaux View Post
    How was Fawad being religiously persecuted back in Pakistan? His views seem like that of any other religious Pakistani.
    IIRC, something to do with teaching cricket to kids and that being too pro-Western for someone's liking.
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  9. #129
    International Regular Monk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince EWS View Post
    You make some seriously weird posts whenever you decide to go non-cricket.
    Huh?

  10. #130
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend andyc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan View Post
    IIRC, something to do with teaching cricket to kids and that being too pro-Western for someone's liking.
    IIRC there was something to do with championing girls' education too.
    Quote Originally Posted by flibbertyjibber View Post
    Only a bunch of convicts having been beaten 3-0 and gone 9 tests without a win and won just 1 in 11 against England could go into the home series saying they will win. England will win in Australia again this winter as they are a better side which they have shown this summer. 3-0 doesn't lie girls.

  11. #131
    Dan
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    Quote Originally Posted by andyc View Post
    IIRC there was something to do with championing girls' education too.
    Quite right

    Ahmed was granted refugee protection in Australia on the basis that Taliban commanders in his homeland threatened on multiple occasions to kill him for coaching local children and promoting education free from religious extremism for women and girls.

    Read more: CA slams 'bigotry' against Ahmed
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  12. #132
    International Captain hendrix's Avatar
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    good ****.

    Of all the extremist groups around the world, the Taliban are the biggest ****s. They started for no other reason than opportunism.

  13. #133
    International Vice-Captain watson's Avatar
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    An interesting article that shines a light on human nature;

    The Fawad Question

    By Andrew Hughes

    By the time many of you read this, I will be sitting on a tiny plastic seat at Edgbaston, enjoying the sunshine, or sheltering under an umbrella waiting for Mr Duckworth and Mr Lewis, or possibly even wading back to the car park, dodging paddling ducks, arks and water-skiers. The weather guessers are non-committal at this stage, having opted to put clouds across the whole of the middle of England and hope for the best.

    If I do see cricket, one of the players I'm looking forward to watching is Fawad Ahmed, although obviously, if he isn't wearing the logo of a certain grain-fermentation concern on his shirt, it will spoil my enjoyment. As Doug Walters pointed out recently, if a bloke doesn't want to wear the name of some beer or other on his breast, then a bloke ought to ask himself whether he's the sort of bloke who really belongs with the other blokes.

    At least, I think that was the gist of it. It may have come as a surprise to Fawad, having been called up to play for Australia, to find that he was in fact representing a Fizzy Beer XI that just happened to have a Cricket Australia badge on their shirts.

    At first, I thought it was odd that Doug was worked up about some corporation having to forego 1/11th of its on-field ad space, given that the company concerned doesn't seem that bothered. There has been some doom-laden talk from marketing types about the implications of allowing a player to exercise a moral choice, but these are the same sort of people who told us that the world of sport would collapse if deprived of the grubby money of cigarette hawkers, and who look at cricket in the same way that a botfly looks at a cow.

    Then I thought maybe this is about alcohol and culture. As well as playing cricket for Australia, Doug Walters is, apparently, famous for having drunk some beer on an aeroplane during the 1970s. Is this the indignation of the beer lover at the treason of abstinence?

    I'm not familiar with Australian culture, but in Britain, cricket drinking is not just tolerated but positively encouraged, particularly by ground authorities who flog their watery beverages at a handsome profit with little regard to the consequences. Go to any Test match in England and by mid-afternoon, large swathes of the crowd have regressed in evolutionary terms and find their entertainment by inserting one empty plastic beer cup inside another, clapping delightedly each time this feat is accomplished, like chimpanzees learning a new skill.

    But it seems that this Fawad alarm didn't have much to do with drinking, either. It was left to David Campese, who I am informed used to chase a rugby ball around a field for a living, to fill in the blanks. He took to Twitter to invite Fawad to "go home".

    Campese scuttled back under his rock soon after, from where he tweeted a sort of apology, among a cloud of nonsense about sport being a team game and blah blah blah. Of course, an apology is the polite thing to do, but the question is, why say something like that in the first place? Much fun is made of England's reliance on South African-born immigrants, but they are never invited to get back where they came from with such vehemence.

    Sacha Baron Cohen once said that when he was playing the anti-semitic character Borat, people around him seemed to feel much more at ease about expressing prejudiced opinions. So perhaps, at a time when Australia's political parties are falling over themselves in their competition to see who can be the most unpleasant towards immigrants, ordinary citizens and former rugby players may feel freer to vent their own xenophobia.

    But in the long run, this is a good thing. We all have some dark corners of our brain where the sunlight of rationality has not fallen for some time. By putting his thoughts out there, Campese, and those who think along the same lines, have had their bigotry exposed, and hopefully will use this opportunity to reflect on just why they have a problem with a man called Fawad, or indeed a man called Usman, wearing an Australian shirt.

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  14. #134
    Cricketer Of The Year Hurricane's Avatar
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    The author has his mind made up on the topic. I basically think, from reading this thread, and that article. That there are three types of people who have expressed views.

    1) Those who think a logo on a shirt is a trivial piece of cloth and can't see the fuss
    2) Those who think the logo represents the relationship with the sponsor and are concerned about the marketing implications and precedents
    3) And those who appreciate point 2 but reckon since VB doesn't give a toss neither should anyone else.

    That author of the article is in camp 1.
    Quote Originally Posted by HeathDavisSpeed View Post
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  15. #135
    Englishman BoyBrumby's Avatar
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    By putting his thoughts out there, Campese, and those who think along the same lines, have had their bigotry exposed, and hopefully will use this opportunity to reflect on just why they have a problem with a man called Fawad, or indeed a man called Usman, wearing an Australian shirt.
    Oooo. That's a stretch, eh? Hughes is baldly implying Campese has a problem with Asians representing Australia generally. I don't know if he ever said anything negative about Khawaja playing for the test XI. Campo's objection (expressed with, sadly, the sledgehammer subtlety we expect from the ungreat man) seemed be specifically about Ahmed and him not wearing the VB logo.

    He might be a prick (one suspects, based on the available evidence, that he is) but I doubt he's a racist. Shared a dressing room with the Ella bros when playing for the Wobblies and is himself famously the son of immigrants to Oz.
    Last edited by BoyBrumby; 12-09-2013 at 01:46 AM.

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