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***Official*** New Zealand in Bangladesh & Sri Lanka 2013
- Thread starter Kippax
- Start date
hendrix
Hall of Fame Member
and probably the match.
Bahnz
Hall of Fame Member
How much longer can McCullum keep batting like this, before questions start being asked about his position in the side? He's been rat**** ever since the tour of England (which I understand is just 4 matches, so it's not the end of the world). How long can a guy keep getting dismissed like this before people start wondering "hmm...I wonder whether he could be setting a better example for the rest of the team...".
Flem274*
123/5
Well if you remove the England home series, where he batted at six on fairly placid pitches, then his record over the past couple of years looks terrible.
The home series was yet another false dawn, and while batting in the easiest conditions able to be designed, he still didn't score a ton. He's a poor mans McMillan, and McMillan was a downhill skier with a very flattering average.
McCullum was an excellent gloveman, if not the best in the world, and for a few games he was a good opener and has been a good tactician as skipper as well. He's also a good final nail in the coffin once the hard work has been done.
But he is not a specialist batsman long term, and he can't be relied upon under pressure unless the pitch is a road.
edit: his first 90 at Lords was a good knock, and he batted at three there.
The home series was yet another false dawn, and while batting in the easiest conditions able to be designed, he still didn't score a ton. He's a poor mans McMillan, and McMillan was a downhill skier with a very flattering average.
McCullum was an excellent gloveman, if not the best in the world, and for a few games he was a good opener and has been a good tactician as skipper as well. He's also a good final nail in the coffin once the hard work has been done.
But he is not a specialist batsman long term, and he can't be relied upon under pressure unless the pitch is a road.
edit: his first 90 at Lords was a good knock, and he batted at three there.
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straw man
Hall of Fame Member
Depends. Is 'people' Mike Hesson or someone else?
Mike5181
International Captain
He had a good home series against South Africa, which had some of the best bowling I've ever seen. Scored runs against England at home. Yeah, the pitches were flat, but if we used that excuse to exclude runs almost everyone would be ordinary. I also thought his away series against South Africa was quite underrated. He didn't score many runs, but he averaged 60+ balls per innings against Philander/Steyn and made it easier for guys like Brownlie to score runs later on.
He's just a barely test standard batsman that's going to average in that 32-35 range for the rest of his career. That's enough to keep him in the team unfortunately.
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Flem274*
123/5
The following might be a bit mean (as if what I just wrote wasn't) so I'll try and keep it polite.
Disclaimer: I'm sure McCullum is doing his best to be a good player, and wants to be a good player.
McCullum dominated age group level cricket, and was an annointed Next Martin Crowe in his teens. The problem with Chosen Ones who are used to dominating their lessers is once you put them up against equals, suddenly sport gets hard. For some, it's too much too soon and their confidence takes a big knock. McCullum was elevated very quickly to the ODI side when he was barely out of his teens to face one of the best ODI sides of all time, and he inevitably failed. He spent a lot of time with the New Zealand side without ever really playing or dominating much Plunket Shield cricket, so he never really played at an intermediary level. NZC tried to take shortcuts, and shortcuts fail 99% of the time.
McCullum dominates any side he knows he is better than, which is why he has such a good record against minnows. Also, when the pressure is off because the work has either been done (Napier 600 match) or because we're stuffed (Australia around that time), he probably feels less pressure to perform, and less pressure makes sport easier because nerves have a nasty habit of dulling the instincts your 10,000 hours have constructed and exacerbating your flaws. I suggest he's a very insecure batsman and not very confident in himself at all, and you see this in his desire to feel bat on ball and in playing big shots to get on top of the opposition. McCullum can play with beautiful soft hands, has a good stance, quick feet and can put the ball into gaps for quick singles. These are not normally the attributes you associate with a bloke who is prone to go looking for the ball early on, often defends with hard hands, gets out jumping all over the place in his crease and holes out on the boundary. His lack of confidence in himself to bring those good skills we have seen him use to the big games is exacerbating his flaws.
He also falls down with what appears from the outside looking in to be an inability to listen and learn. A few years ago he was quoted on radio as saying he doesn't listen to Martin Crowe anymore. Not every player better than you will always know what is best for you, but being so dismissive of our best ever batsman and a man who has coached Ross Taylor, Jamie How and Tim McIntosh to be better batsmen than they were is a very poor attitude to take.
I think his chopping and changing of where he wants to bat is a mental cop out. He has the basic technique to bat anywhere in the order, but (again from the outside looking in) it's almost like he's thinking "If I open/bat three/bat four/bat six I'll finally find my true place in the order..." and it's not working for him because the issue isn't and has never been where he bats, it's how he's batting.
It's not too late for him to change - lots of players have been excellent until their late 30s - but I'm dubious he will listen to those who can help him best.
EDIT: I forgot to say in the Chosen Ones section that those around him at a young age telling him how wonderful he was, and how he was the next Crowe and so on did him (and others like him) more harm than good. That sort of carry on from fans and media is unavoidable, but coaches should never give out too much praise. This applies across all sports. It's very easy to get lazy when people at every turn see no wrong.
Disclaimer: I'm sure McCullum is doing his best to be a good player, and wants to be a good player.
McCullum dominated age group level cricket, and was an annointed Next Martin Crowe in his teens. The problem with Chosen Ones who are used to dominating their lessers is once you put them up against equals, suddenly sport gets hard. For some, it's too much too soon and their confidence takes a big knock. McCullum was elevated very quickly to the ODI side when he was barely out of his teens to face one of the best ODI sides of all time, and he inevitably failed. He spent a lot of time with the New Zealand side without ever really playing or dominating much Plunket Shield cricket, so he never really played at an intermediary level. NZC tried to take shortcuts, and shortcuts fail 99% of the time.
McCullum dominates any side he knows he is better than, which is why he has such a good record against minnows. Also, when the pressure is off because the work has either been done (Napier 600 match) or because we're stuffed (Australia around that time), he probably feels less pressure to perform, and less pressure makes sport easier because nerves have a nasty habit of dulling the instincts your 10,000 hours have constructed and exacerbating your flaws. I suggest he's a very insecure batsman and not very confident in himself at all, and you see this in his desire to feel bat on ball and in playing big shots to get on top of the opposition. McCullum can play with beautiful soft hands, has a good stance, quick feet and can put the ball into gaps for quick singles. These are not normally the attributes you associate with a bloke who is prone to go looking for the ball early on, often defends with hard hands, gets out jumping all over the place in his crease and holes out on the boundary. His lack of confidence in himself to bring those good skills we have seen him use to the big games is exacerbating his flaws.
He also falls down with what appears from the outside looking in to be an inability to listen and learn. A few years ago he was quoted on radio as saying he doesn't listen to Martin Crowe anymore. Not every player better than you will always know what is best for you, but being so dismissive of our best ever batsman and a man who has coached Ross Taylor, Jamie How and Tim McIntosh to be better batsmen than they were is a very poor attitude to take.
I think his chopping and changing of where he wants to bat is a mental cop out. He has the basic technique to bat anywhere in the order, but (again from the outside looking in) it's almost like he's thinking "If I open/bat three/bat four/bat six I'll finally find my true place in the order..." and it's not working for him because the issue isn't and has never been where he bats, it's how he's batting.
It's not too late for him to change - lots of players have been excellent until their late 30s - but I'm dubious he will listen to those who can help him best.
EDIT: I forgot to say in the Chosen Ones section that those around him at a young age telling him how wonderful he was, and how he was the next Crowe and so on did him (and others like him) more harm than good. That sort of carry on from fans and media is unavoidable, but coaches should never give out too much praise. This applies across all sports. It's very easy to get lazy when people at every turn see no wrong.
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Flem274*
123/5
Well this is more speculative, but it fits.
He first started consistently being gun in ODIs when we were chasing those stupidly huge Australian totals. I can't even remember the match situation of his first gun knock in those but 330 back then was lol goodbye. We looked to have no hope, but McCullum came in and in those early days of his finishing sprees he was awesome at turning the strike over to the batsman who was booming it. His 2007 47* in the Oram 101* match was mostly singles. It also helped Australia fell apart in those games, McGrath excepted. Lee and all the rotated reserve bowlers did enjoy losing the plot.
Then once he got one chase under his belt, he got a boost of confidence and it became easier. He knows how to finish and he knows he can do it.
Him not turning up in world cups suggests he's not entirely confident in his ODI game either mind, when the stage gets big. At least that's how it is if you want to subscribe to my theory.
He first started consistently being gun in ODIs when we were chasing those stupidly huge Australian totals. I can't even remember the match situation of his first gun knock in those but 330 back then was lol goodbye. We looked to have no hope, but McCullum came in and in those early days of his finishing sprees he was awesome at turning the strike over to the batsman who was booming it. His 2007 47* in the Oram 101* match was mostly singles. It also helped Australia fell apart in those games, McGrath excepted. Lee and all the rotated reserve bowlers did enjoy losing the plot.
Then once he got one chase under his belt, he got a boost of confidence and it became easier. He knows how to finish and he knows he can do it.
Him not turning up in world cups suggests he's not entirely confident in his ODI game either mind, when the stage gets big. At least that's how it is if you want to subscribe to my theory.
straw man
Hall of Fame Member
Two things with McCullum at present:
1 - At least when he was opening he could be relied upon to focus and apply himself 1-2 innings per 2-match series and usually get to fifty once. As Mike pointed out he faced a decent number of deliveries and as opener did a useful job for the side. We haven't seen this level of application since then; instead against England at home he had conditions and match situations straight from McCullum-heaven and was able to play the aggressive role straight out of his fantasy world, and since then he's found that back on earth it's quite hard to grind out runs. Needs to re-apply at least some of what was working back when he was opening.
2 - Whenever I think of our test XI developing and think of young (or not-so-young) batsmen coming through, invariably best-suited to batting in the middle order, McCullum is there taking up one of the 5 or 6 spots that they could occupy. Yes, we still have one place partly open, currently held by Anderson/Brownlie, but you'd hope that one of them would grab and hold that and we have many potential number five or six batsmen. This would all be fine if McCullum deserves his spot in the middle order through weight of runs, but if it gets to the point where we genuinely think whoever he's keeping out (Brownlie, Ronchi, Ryder, Latham etc) would contribute more then that's a big problem.
None of this is disastrous... yet - McCullum needs to contribute important runs against the West Indies at home though. And I have a feeling if he doesn't then sections of the NZ public will be very quick to get on his back, which will make things uncomfortable.
1 - At least when he was opening he could be relied upon to focus and apply himself 1-2 innings per 2-match series and usually get to fifty once. As Mike pointed out he faced a decent number of deliveries and as opener did a useful job for the side. We haven't seen this level of application since then; instead against England at home he had conditions and match situations straight from McCullum-heaven and was able to play the aggressive role straight out of his fantasy world, and since then he's found that back on earth it's quite hard to grind out runs. Needs to re-apply at least some of what was working back when he was opening.
2 - Whenever I think of our test XI developing and think of young (or not-so-young) batsmen coming through, invariably best-suited to batting in the middle order, McCullum is there taking up one of the 5 or 6 spots that they could occupy. Yes, we still have one place partly open, currently held by Anderson/Brownlie, but you'd hope that one of them would grab and hold that and we have many potential number five or six batsmen. This would all be fine if McCullum deserves his spot in the middle order through weight of runs, but if it gets to the point where we genuinely think whoever he's keeping out (Brownlie, Ronchi, Ryder, Latham etc) would contribute more then that's a big problem.
None of this is disastrous... yet - McCullum needs to contribute important runs against the West Indies at home though. And I have a feeling if he doesn't then sections of the NZ public will be very quick to get on his back, which will make things uncomfortable.
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hendrix
Hall of Fame Member
I think he's fine under pressure and I don't really think he's a downhill skier. He's just ADHD with all his shifts around the order. Now that he's batting 5, fine. Stay there.
He is one of our top 6 batsman:
Better than an imaginary Ryder (play some first class games again mate, can't be picked on a pre-coma average, as harsh as that may sound)
Better than a developing Latham (we really don't want to nurture another underachiever)
Better than any other domestic batsman (I like Flynn, not seeing much from anyone else and he's an opener now anyway)
He is one of our top 6 batsman:
Better than an imaginary Ryder (play some first class games again mate, can't be picked on a pre-coma average, as harsh as that may sound)
Better than a developing Latham (we really don't want to nurture another underachiever)
Better than any other domestic batsman (I like Flynn, not seeing much from anyone else and he's an opener now anyway)
He's not even achieving that incredibly low bar.
NZ batting since Baz's last ton (nearly 3 years ago):
Ave 100s HS
Taylor 44.30 3 142
Fulton 44.08 2 136
BJ 34.87 2 103
Rutherford 33.91 1 171
KW 32.48 3 135
Baz 30.59 0 84
Brownlie 29.62 1 109
Dan 26.61 1 110
Gup 25.48 1 109
Young 24.14 0 57
Flynn 21.81 0 53
van Wyk 21.31 0 71
Timmeh 20.36 0 56
Franklin 18.22 0 43*
Ryder 17.80 0 59
Boult 17.58 0 52*
Fulton, BJ
And 
at Boult having a higher top score than Franklin.Making a player who's the sixth-best batsman, and the worst bowler, and not able to keep any longer, and who hasn't scored a ton in years, captain is not a terribly bright idea. And thanks to Hesson its going to be a problem in the next six months.
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CharlesLara
U19 12th Man
Truer words have not been spoken.
Great post.
McCullum's form generally resembles that of Mitchell Johnson in terms of the extremes they can operate at, and for the sheer lack of anything resembling consistency. One attractive / meaningful knock every solstice is just not good enough for a guy considered to be in the team for his batting alone, let alone one of the better experienced players. This coming summer could be a defining one with regards to his captaincy (which should then in turn questions need to be raised about his place), so maybe he's due for one of THOSE knocks that reassures the already-low standard NZ cricket public (which I am a part of lol).
On another note, A Southee, Wagner, Boult, Sodhi lineup looks as balanced as I have seen in recent memory.
Great post.
McCullum's form generally resembles that of Mitchell Johnson in terms of the extremes they can operate at, and for the sheer lack of anything resembling consistency. One attractive / meaningful knock every solstice is just not good enough for a guy considered to be in the team for his batting alone, let alone one of the better experienced players. This coming summer could be a defining one with regards to his captaincy (which should then in turn questions need to be raised about his place), so maybe he's due for one of THOSE knocks that reassures the already-low standard NZ cricket public (which I am a part of lol).
On another note, A Southee, Wagner, Boult, Sodhi lineup looks as balanced as I have seen in recent memory.
OverratedSanity
Request Your Custom Title Now!
Atleast Johnson produced several match winning spells against good teams on occasion. McCullum is almost exclusively a minnow basher
Hurricane
Hall of Fame Member
There is no excuse for Baz's dismissal last night. The ball should have been played along the ground.
I disagree with Hendrix that he is a fine under pressure. He disappears every 50 over world cup time. And if he turned up at tournaments we might have won the champions trophy a few years ago. In fact on memory not only did he not perform with the bat but he was a muppet with the gloves in the final dropping a catch that went straight up in the air.
3.2
Siddle to McCullum, OUT, edged and taken! Siddle takes out McCullum with bounce, bangs it in and gets McCullum flashing outside off stump, there's a thin nick and Paine gobbles it up
BB McCullum c †Paine b Siddle 0 (16m 14b 0x4 0x6) SR: 0.00
17.3
Butler to White, 1 run, dropped! White goes to pull a shorter ball and makes a meal of it, all wrong with the balance, and the ball flies up off the shoulder of the bat very, very high to the leg side, McCullum runs across to his left but fails to catch it, it was hard because it was spiraling but he needed to pouch that
I disagree with Hendrix that he is a fine under pressure. He disappears every 50 over world cup time. And if he turned up at tournaments we might have won the champions trophy a few years ago. In fact on memory not only did he not perform with the bat but he was a muppet with the gloves in the final dropping a catch that went straight up in the air.
3.2
Siddle to McCullum, OUT, edged and taken! Siddle takes out McCullum with bounce, bangs it in and gets McCullum flashing outside off stump, there's a thin nick and Paine gobbles it up
BB McCullum c †Paine b Siddle 0 (16m 14b 0x4 0x6) SR: 0.00
17.3
Butler to White, 1 run, dropped! White goes to pull a shorter ball and makes a meal of it, all wrong with the balance, and the ball flies up off the shoulder of the bat very, very high to the leg side, McCullum runs across to his left but fails to catch it, it was hard because it was spiraling but he needed to pouch that
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