***Official*** New Zealand in Bangladesh & Sri Lanka 2013

[straw man]

Vettori looked very flat in the WI test he played, but Bartin and Jeets really aren't the options moving forward IMO. develop a decent wrist spinner IMO, whether it's Astle (batting at 8) or Sodhi

That would be great except that I don't like our chances of this actually occurring. There's barely such a thing as a mediocre international wrist spinner* and the leap to becoming a good international wrist spinner is large. This is why most sides are happy enough with a finger spinner of the Vettori/ A.Petersen/ Boje/ Hauritz variety that can hold up an end.

Astle could just maybe hold a place in the NZ side once Vettori retires if he bats well and we pick and choose when he bowls (against weak players of spin, against the tail, on rare occasions when we're on top of the match and can put fielders round the bat) rather than relying on 25 overs per day.

I haven't seen a great deal of Sodhi; he sounds talented however it's also a massive mountain to climb.

Otherwise, we're left with Williamson for the most part.

* and just below mediocre they average 45 at 5 per over, go to pieces under pressure and get dropped.

 

[Flem274*]

Jeets will have a lot of marks against his name because not only has he taken over 50 test wickets at nearly 50 a piece, the number one New Zealand spinner will be doing half of their bowling in New Zealand and Jeets has almost 200 wickets at the price of 40 runs each for Wellington. Bruce Martin and Todd Astle have better records without be outstanding. Martin has nearly 300 Plunket wickets at 35 and Astle when playing as a serious bowler has had two very good seasons (very good = under 30) and two poor ones.

I actually think Astle has the accuracy to be one of those spinners who tie up an end without taking bags. In Sri Lanka he bowled quite nicely, but posters who know more than me about spin bowling were saying he simply wasn't getting them down there fast enough for his flight, turn and accuracy to be as effective as it should have been. He is probably quite an unusual wrist spinner in that respect. He definitely wasn't a Nethula-esque debut where he lost the plot.

 

[Maximas]

with Williamson in the team picking a spinner becomes kinda tricky, KW is a wicket taker, but still a finger spinner, so it's hard to imagine he is a truly attacking option, however he isn't accurate enough to hold down an end. So NZ's main spinner really needs to be able to attack and defend or the selectors will just have to choose, Bartin can't hold down an end properly, while Jeets isn't much of a wicket taker, and we all know what wrist-spinners can be like, so it's hard to say what the right option is tbh

 

[Immenso]

.

I actually think Astle has the accuracy to be one of those spinners who tie up an end without taking bags. In Sri Lanka he bowled quite nicely, but posters who know more than me about spin bowling were saying he simply wasn't getting them down there fast enough for his flight, turn and accuracy to be as effective as it should have been. He is probably quite an unusual wrist spinner in that respect. He definitely wasn't a Nethula-esque debut where he lost the plot.

This is a totally different view of Astle, to me.

I don't see Astle as an accurate, tie down and end bowler, at all. He is very loose, tends towards the thigh high full toss though, rather than the long hop. But he bowls a lot of them. Gets big turn though.

I'm just hoping he is getting better, In a general upward trend, since concentrating on spin. I don't know what balls he is trying to land when he bowls the full tosses, maybe they are just loose regular leggies. But I'm hoping every year he bowls less of them ... I see real potential (not an expert though, at all) but agree he is a luxury at the moment as a test option.

But love your work Tastle.

 

[Kippax]

Astle as an accurate, tie down and end bowler, at all.

Haha no, AWTA. In theory he perhaps could be as Flem says (easy on the senses, anodyne, trusty etc.). Instead there's still that element of the hobbyist gourmet chef with Tastle I think, more than someone who takes it on as his day job to churn out commercially sound, unadventurous meals.

 

[Hurricane]

Yeah it was PEWS and a couple of others that said the only reason he gets that much turn is that he is really floating it up there. Here are his first three overs and the commentary seems to confirm this

13.1
Astle to Paranavitana, 1 run, starts up with a wide delivery outside off, driven to deep cover easily
13.2
Astle to Mathews, 1 run, gets some turn after pitching on middle and leg, but the length is short and Angelo goes back and tucks it to the leg side
13.3
Astle to Paranavitana, no run, tossed up all the way to the batsman defended back to the bowler
13.4
Astle to Paranavitana, no run, tosses it up outside off, some drift for the legspinner, defended towards cover
13.5
Astle to Paranavitana, no run, flatter, spins in after pitching outside off, punched off the back foot to cover
13.6
Astle to Paranavitana, 1 run, tossed up way high, but that comes down and is driven towards mid-off and the batsmen call for a single. The third umpire is called as the fielder takes down the stumps with a direct hit at the striker's end. All safe though. He was just in
Sri Lanka 38/3 TD Astle 1-0-3-0
15.1
Astle to Mathews, 2 runs, lots of air in that one, but Angelo takes it on the full and drives it to wide long on
15.2
Astle to Mathews, no run, slightly short in length, turns after pitching on leg stump, defended down the pitch
15.3
Astle to Mathews, 1 run, tossed up real slow again, it's a full toss and it's driven to mid-off
15.4
Astle to Paranavitana, no run, tossed up outside off, turns into the batsman, who drops the ball down to his feet
15.5
Astle to Paranavitana, no run, lots of air in that ball, made the batsman to wait before he defended it back to the bowler
15.6
Astle to Paranavitana, no run, floated up wide outside off, the batsman just pads it away
Sri Lanka 43/3 TD Astle 2-0-6-0
55.1
Astle to Randiv, no run, some turn immediately, pitches outside leg and played by the batsman around off stump
55.2
Astle to Randiv, no run, tosses it way up in the air, and it is slow, Randiv takes it on the full and hits it hard, straight to cover
55.3
Astle to Randiv, no run, better length this time, the batsman comes forward in defence
55.4
Astle to Randiv, 1 run, flighted and full around off stump, Randiv pushes it to the left of short cover
55.5
Astle to Samaraweera, 1 run, tossed up delivery on the off and middle, Thilan stays back and plays a very late cut. Had it not turned...
55.6
Astle to Randiv, no run, lots of air this time, on the pads, defended to the leg side

 

[Kippax]

 

[Maximas]

that drift was wild

 

[Kippax]

that drift was wild

Give him a thumbs up on his video so he'll see this praise. He's got one from 630 views, it was Kippax.

 

[RxGM]

with Williamson in the team picking a spinner becomes kinda tricky, KW is a wicket taker, but still a finger spinner, so it's hard to imagine he is a truly attacking option, however he isn't accurate enough to hold down an end. So NZ's main spinner really needs to be able to attack and defend or the selectors will just have to choose, Bartin can't hold down an end properly, while Jeets isn't much of a wicket taker, and we all know what wrist-spinners can be like, so it's hard to say what the right option is tbh

I think you can only justify an innacurate leg spinner if you have the capacity to hide them when need be. This means playing a genuine batting allrounder (we cant afford the lack of batting depth) of the Astle/Styris/08 to 11 Vettori type or if Southee/Bracewell finally fufill there batting potential. Watching the video reminded me that Astle did bowl some magic deliveries in that innings, he beat the outside edge at least a dozen times. But he bowled plenty of garbage in between.

 

[Maximas]

KW could easily be considered the batting all-rounder type you mention IMO

 

[RxGM]

KW could easily be considered the batting all-rounder type you mention IMO

imo Kane is not capable of holding up/and maintaining pressure at an end while you attack at the other end, or bowl tight overs to rest your quicks - which is the role that Astle/Styris performed.

I would prefer if Kane was only bowling occasionally anyway, a batting average of 31 is dreadful given his potential

 

[straw man]

Jeets-watch:
Another day, another 50 to dig his team out of a difficult position.

NB: None of this should be taken as advocating Jeets for NZ tests again. I'm pleased for him that he's doing well for Warwickshire though.

 

[Hurricane]

I was avoiding getting drawn into the Jeets discussion but will finally take the bait.

McHesson will not pick him again if for no other reason than he disgraced the team by waving the white flag against the SA bowlers. Hesson was quite disparaging in his comments towards Jeetan.

 

[Flem274*]

the lot of them waved the white flag tbh.

 

[RxGM]

Test Squad is to be announced tomorrow.
Only changes i can see from the england squad will be the dropping of Guptill (injury) and Gillespie.
imo Astle and Anderson will come in for those two - provided Anderson has not picked up another injury

 

[Mike5181]

Test Squad is to be announced tomorrow.
Only changes i can see from the england squad will be the dropping of Guptill (injury) and Gillespie.
imo Astle and Anderson will come in for those two - provided Anderson has not picked up another injury

Doubt Henry/Milne will be in the test squad either, which is a shame. I was hoping one of them would get a game or two on the A tour to challenge for a spot in the squad, but not to be. Sounds like Dougie bowled ok anyway.

 

[Maximas]

I think it's pretty clear that Sodhi isn't quite international standard yet, he needs a season or two more of domestic season and he needs to get his average down, Astle should become NZ's premiere spinner now while he bats at 8 to strengthen their ****ty tail

 

[Mike5181]

I think it's pretty clear that Sodhi isn't quite international standard yet, he needs a season or two more of domestic season and he needs to get his average down, Astle should become NZ's premiere spinner now while he bats at 8 to strengthen their ****ty tail

Southee/Martin/Wagner are all useful with the bat tbh.

 

[Prince EWS]

Astle's one of those cricketers who I don't really think is any good at all but I just really wish was. I'd be stoked if he played but I wouldn't expect him to do much. Should let him open the batting.