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***Official*** New Zealand in Bangladesh & Sri Lanka 2013

Rifat

Cricket Spectator
Good series win, NZ were in good form coming into this series. They did beat South Africa in SA and England in England but still we managed to go 2-0 up with 1 match to go, was fortunate enough to be at the stadium. Shakib's absence wasnt felt even though he singlehandedly won the last series, shows there is more depth in the squad now.
 

hendrix

Hall of Fame Member
Well done Bangladesh. They did well not to collapse in the first game, and did well to finish at 247 here.

re: selections: can we bring back the pie chart please? Nothing can be worse than picking batsmen with some of the worst list A records in domestic cricket to open the ****ing innings.
 

Binkley

U19 Captain
Worse tbh.

Bangladesh are a stronger side now than they were back then, and they have played well, but this performance from NZ has been as bad as I've ever seen (and I suffered through the embarrassing 90s). The senior players have gone missing and the selections have been atrocious. We haven't put our best team on the field at any stage, imo.
I agree with this. Bangladesh are playing better cricket than in 2010, and I do think they are a team of promise - but to some degree we are letting them play better cricket. The NZers are not playing with any confidence, and the Bangladeshis are clearly feeding off that. You could see it last night in the nervousness around our batting. And you could see it in the indecisiveness in our field settings and bowling choices (I recall one particular moment where McCullum and Mills were clearly discussing whether Mills should bowl another over or not, and it was clear that neither of them wanted to make the decision). Bangladesh remains anchored to the bottom of the rankings, and this should be the easiest tour in top level cricket. The fact that we are making such a hash of it reflects really badly on the team and the organisation and systems behind it.

The selectors have done an awful job in selecting this side. There doesn't appear to be any plan or structure to our play, and a lack of confidence in the playing group, which reflects badly on the coach. Accountability though, is not NZ Cricket's strong point. So I don't expect anyone to be held accountable. And lack of accountability, as Joe Klein pointed out recently, reduces incentives for others to do better, reduces effectiveness and slowly transforms organisations into "lugubrious sludge glaciers" where change becomes increasingly hard to introduce.

Blah. Anyway. As someone who really needs some positives with his coffee this morning - at least Jimmy Neesham and Corey Anderson are playing well. And it really is lovely watching Tim Southee bowl with a new ball in his hands.
 

Kippax

Cricketer Of The Year
Inb4 one of the more numerically-slanted posters say Devcich's 50-over record was okay.

Not 'Papps good', 'Nicol good' or 'Kitchen good', but okay. :p
 

Rifat

Cricket Spectator
- but to some degree we are letting them play better cricket. The NZers are not playing with any confidence, and the Bangladeshis are clearly feeding off that.
But how can a team that is coming from two back to back series wins away from home against top ranked teams be lacking confidence?
 

Binkley

U19 Captain
But how can a team that is coming from two back to back series wins away from home against top ranked teams be lacking confidence?
Our last ODI series was in June - four months ago - and the batting order for that series had Guptill, Ronchi, Williamson, Munro and Franklin in its line-up. Taylor and McCullum are the only batsmen from that team to remain in the side, and one of those is terribly out of form while the other is terribly out of favour with the coach. The lack of confidence really isn't a surprise.

EDIT: Beaten to the punch by Kippax.
 

wellAlbidarned

International Coach
Lol well played Bangladesh. As for these blackcaps - blah blah all been said before the cycle of mediocrity continues. Just not worth it.
 

Rifat

Cricket Spectator
Our last ODI series was in June - four months ago - and the batting order for that series had Guptill, Ronchi, Williamson, Munro and Franklin in its line-up. Taylor and McCullum are the only batsmen from that team to remain in the side, and one of those is terribly out of form while the other is terribly out of favour with the coach. The lack of confidence really isn't a surprise.

EDIT: Beaten to the punch by Kippax.
Ronchi, Munro, Franklin hardly look world beaters to me. The only significant losses are Guptill and Williamson but then again BD lacks Shakibs bowling and batting so the lack of confidence doesnt look a big factor to me. Even in the tests NZ didnt dominate 5 days with Williamson in the side. They seem to struggle in these conditions against a much better Bangladesh team
 
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Binkley

U19 Captain
Ronchi, Munro, Franklin hardly look world beaters to me. The only significant losses are Guptill and Williamson but then again BD lacks Shakibs bowling and batting so the lack of confidence doesnt look a big factor to me. Even in the tests NZ didnt dominate 5 days with Williamson in the side. They seem to struggle in these conditions against a much better Bangladesh team
I didn't mean any disrespect to Bangladesh. They are definitely an improving team, and I am a real fan of Shakib and Tamim - while Mominul has impressed the heck out of me. It is a matter of perspective though. I am a NZ cricket fan, so when NZ are playing my focus is automatically on the strengths and flaws of the NZ team.
 

Bahnz

Hall of Fame Member
Ronchi, Munro, Franklin hardly look world beaters to me. The only significant losses are Guptill and Williamson but then again BD lacks Shakibs bowling and batting so the lack of confidence doesnt look a big factor to me. Even in the tests NZ didnt dominate 5 days with Williamson in the side. They seem to struggle in these conditions against a much better Bangladesh team
I think for a lot of people, the frustrations with this New Zealand team have less to do with who's missing and more to do with who's playing. Devchich, Rutherford and Elliot has to be one of the strangest and least justified top 3's that New Zealand has ever put out on the field. I understand as a Bangladesh fan that you probably won't know this, but both Devcich and Rutherford have never done anything close to warranting selection in the national side. Devcich is there because he's a favourite of one of the senior NZ coaches. Rutherford is coasting on the back of his 160 v England back in March, and barely averages 20 in domestic one day cricket. And Elliot is a good tryer, but he's at best a number 5, not a number 3. Meanwhile BJ Watling is back home in New Zealand, ignored despite a superb last 12 months in the sub continent with the bat, other more deserving (if unpolished) youngsters like Anaru Kitchen are stuck with him, and Taylor and McCullum continue to lurk lower down the order seemingly afraid to take responsibility for making the majority of the runs in the absence of Guptill, Williamson and Ryder.
 

Flem274*

123/5
Congratulations to Bangladesh. They were genuinely the better side in this ODI series.

As for us, well changing the coach won't change much. It might make our best batsman feel more comfortable but that's about it. Changing the captain won't change much (except allowing a batsman with a better real average into the test side). The problems go much deeper than what the national side is doing, which is why dumping Taylor was so stupid in the first place - there was only so much he could do.

Speaking of Taylor, while I didn't see a ball the criticism of him seems a bit over the top when he was the only batsman to sort of do anything. And can you blame him for being restrained and lacking in confidence? If he gets out being aggressive he'll get slammed for being a filthy slogger in the media. He can't win.

Hopefully McHesson now see Taylor wasn't the man standing in the way of success at all.
 

Bahnz

Hall of Fame Member
Speaking of Taylor, while I didn't see a ball the criticism of him seems a bit over the top when he was the only batsman to sort of do anything. And can you blame him for being restrained and lacking in confidence? If he gets out being aggressive he'll get slammed for being a filthy slogger in the media. He can't win.
The frustration from Taylor stems from the constipated way he went about his innings, and the predictable nature of its end. I'm not sure if it was a tactical decision to bat that way (in which case, it's disappointing to see that we haven't learnt a thing from our last tour of Bangladesh) or whether he's still dealing with personal crap, but it wasn't great to watch. He wasn't awful or anything, and I agree he wasn't helped by the incompetence of the top 3, but if his hope was to avoid being labelled a slogger then he didn't do himself many favours by getting out to another onside heave into the deep.

Anderson's dismissal was attrocious, but technical flaws aside I actually thought he went about things in the right way, and the ease with which Nathan McCullum and Kyle Mills found the boundaries (admittedly after the match was lost) in the last 10 overs somewhat vindicates this.
 

RxGM

U19 Vice-Captain
I think for a lot of people, the frustrations with this New Zealand team have less to do with who's missing and more to do with who's playing. Devchich, Rutherford and Elliot has to be one of the strangest and least justified top 3's that New Zealand has ever put out on the field.
ODI's are generally won if someone in your top three goes big ie Kane in RSA, Guptill in england.
They have to get either Taylor or McCullum up the order if only to provide experience to either Devcich or Rutherford.
You can imagine the conversations out in the middle,
Anton: "S***, Hamish what do we do here"
Hamish: "I dont know, Baz keeps on saying play your natural game so Im just going to slam it through the offside"
etc etc.

I know Brendon has decied that he is a lower order slogger, and Taylor is to stubborn to move above 4, but at least one and ideally both of them have to relent.

A top six of
Devcich/Rutherford/Latham, BMac, Taylor, Elliott, Munro/Ronchi, Anderson looks alot more threatening.
 

vandem

International 12th Man
... I really miss Styris.
Agree. And before him Roger Twose. Made more runs than their team mates without appearing to have the same level of batting skill ("class"?). I recall an excellent radio interview where Styris set out his ODI batting strategy, was about getting a sighter, then taking a few calculated risks by hitting in the air, which made some fielders move from the ring to the boundary, then picking up easy singles from good balls by playing through the gaps in the ring, with the occasional biffing of bad balls.
 

_Ed_

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Well, Devcich clearly isn't good enough. We could have told them that.

And I'm still not convinced Rutherford belongs in this team. Excellent Test prospect, yes, but he's been abysmal in ODIs so far. And his List A average of 17 doesn't inspire massive confidence.
 

Flem274*

123/5
And that average includes a ton too iirc,

I think Rutherford might be too easy to set a field to in ODI cricket. Block the offside and he struggles. I think he will continue to struggle until he makes himself a more rounded batsman, which he has plenty of time to do.
 

hendrix

Hall of Fame Member
Ronchi, Munro, Franklin hardly look world beaters to me. The only significant losses are Guptill and Williamson but then again BD lacks Shakibs bowling and batting so the lack of confidence doesnt look a big factor to me. Even in the tests NZ didnt dominate 5 days with Williamson in the side. They seem to struggle in these conditions against a much better Bangladesh team

agreed on all of these points. Lack of confidence is not a good excuse.

The selections have already been pointed out, but the bigger issue is that all of the good, proven batsmen have been put in the middle order, with not one entrusted with taking responsibility at the top of the innings. I just can't see the reasoning for this. Ever since the early 90s (Anwar, Tendulkar, Jayasuriya etc) it's been patently clear that you need one of your best, if not the best batsman at the top of the order.

The whole appeal of Hesson as a coach was that he was meant to be good at maximising output from a limited pool by being smart with things like team composition. That simply hasn't happened.

On his first ODI series in charge he convinced Taylor to basically be a floating batsman and come in in the late middle order. He's doing the same with McCullum. What happened to good batsmen taking responsibility and taking the game away from the opposition? These guys shouldn't be encouraged to be "finishers". That should be the job we're entrusting on guys like Anderson, Neesham, (Devcich), Nathan McCullum, even Mills and Southee.

A senior batsman needs to take responsibility and that's just not happening.
 

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