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Thread: DoG's Top 100 Test Batsmen - The Top 25

  1. #586
    International Vice-Captain kyear2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coronis View Post
    Clearly, strike rate is not always important for a batsman.
    For me it really is. Separates the good from the truly great and dominant.
    Aus. XI
    Simpson^ | Hayden | Bradman | Chappell^ | Ponting | Border* | Gilchrist+ | Davidson3 | Warne4^ | Lillee1 | McGrath2


    W.I. XI
    Greenidge | Hunte | Richards^ | Headley* | Lara^ | Sobers5^ | Walcott+ | Marshall1 | Ambrose2 | Holding3 | Garner4

    S.A. XI
    Richards^ | Smith*^ | Amla | Pollock | Kallis5^ | Nourse | Cameron+ | Procter3 | Steyn1 | Tayfield4 | Donald2

    Eng. XI
    Hobbs | Hutton*^ | Hammond^ | Compton | Barrington | Botham5^ | Knott | Trueman1 | Laker4 | Larwood2 | Barnes3

  2. #587
    State Vice-Captain Coronis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyear2 View Post
    For me it really is. Separates the good from the truly great and dominant.
    So, Hutton would not be truly great?
    ATG World XI
    1. J.B Hobbs 2. H. Sutcliffe 3. D.G Bradman 4. W.R Hammond 5. G.S Sobers 6. M.J Procter 7. A.C Gilchrist 8. M.D Marshall 9. S.K Warne 10. M. Muralitharan 11. G.D McGrath

  3. #588
    International Captain bagapath's Avatar
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    All great batters score at a run rate bet 2.5 to 3.5. Those outside of it - Viv Richards, Sehwag, Gilchrist at one end and Sutcliffe, Hutton, Boycott at the lower side - are mere exceptions to this rule. The most celebrated of them score between 3 and 3.5 runs/ over. Ideal test match batting means you plan to score between 260 and 320 on a day of batting depending on the bowling you are facing. Only when you are in a strong position can you afford to up the run rate and give yourself a chance to bowl out your opposition. Since your opposition is likely to have good bowlers and batters who can capitalise on your mistakes you play for time as often as you play for scoring loads of runs.

    It is not a coincidence that these three slow coaches happen to be opening batsmen from Yorkshire. Their technique was especially honed on stickies and as the bedrocks of a traditional team everyone was watching with extra attention, no wonder they prioritised caution over flamboyance. The three hard hitters mentioned here, OTOH, played for successful teams that also had other star batters to step up in case their stroke play let them down on certain days. There was always a Haynes, a Dravid or a Waugh to steady the ship and grant Richards and Sehwag and Gilchrist the kind of freedom they needed to express themselves with unbridled aggression.
    Last edited by bagapath; 31-08-2013 at 01:34 AM.

  4. #589
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    Headley just keeps on going.
    Quote Originally Posted by Athlai View Post
    Jeets doesn't really deserve to be bowling.
    Quote Originally Posted by Athlai View Post
    Well yeah Tendy is probably better than Bradman, but Bradman was 70 years ago, if he grew up in the modern era he'd still easily be the best. Though he wasn't, can understand the argument for Tendy even though I don't agree.
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  5. #590
    Eyes not spreadsheets marc71178's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyear2 View Post
    For me it really is. Separates the good from the truly great and dominant.
    So you'll now be downgrading your assessment of Headley then seeing as he's slower than Kallis and on a par with Dravid....
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  6. #591
    International Debutant Viscount Tom's Avatar
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    If he comes above Hobbs I think'll cry.

  7. #592
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    Excellent thread DoG - enjoyed it from the start. What a wonderful formula you have settled on.

    My two cents the top 5:

    5. Headley
    4. Sobers
    3. Lara
    2. Hobbs
    1. Bradman

  8. #593
    International Coach HeathDavisSpeed's Avatar
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    Graeme Pollock and Headley's Test careers are incredibly similar stats-wise. The big difference being the length of Headley's career. From Fred's article, it suggests that Headley's career went too long and Pollock's Test career was clearly too short.

    Anyway, it's an interesting result if the gap between them is statistically significant, but would would be great (given the similarity of their careers) is if we could have a comparative breakdown of their ratings - once Headley has been pulled out of the hat, of course.
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  9. #594
    State Vice-Captain Coronis's Avatar
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    If you take out Headley's innings after the war, he would've averaged 69, I believe.

  10. #595
    International Vice-Captain Days of Grace's Avatar
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    5. Brian Lara (West Indies) (1990-2006)




    Career Length (Days): 5835
    Percentage of team's matches played: 83%
    Career Average: 52.88
    Adjusted career average: 53.12
    Adjusted away average: 48.78
    Adjusted top-opposition average: 54.40
    Top Tier centuries: 12 (rank 2nd)
    Second tier centuries: 5
    Third tier centuries: 14
    Significant innings: 38
    Significant innings per match: 0.29

    Great innings: 11 (rank 1st)
    3rd Test: Australia v West Indies at Sydney, Jan 2-6, 1993 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo 13.63
    5th Test: West Indies v England at St John's, Apr 16-21, 1994 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo 14.79
    2nd Test: West Indies v Australia at Kingston, Mar 13-16, 1999 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo 19.58
    3rd Test: West Indies v Australia at Bridgetown, Mar 26-30, 1999 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo 25.49
    3rd Test: Australia v West Indies at Adelaide, Dec 15-19, 2000 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo 13.97
    3rd Test: Sri Lanka v West Indies at Colombo (SSC), Nov 29-Dec 3, 2001 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo 14.28
    1st Test: South Africa v West Indies at Johannesburg, Dec 12-16, 2003 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo 12.83
    4th Test: West Indies v England at St John's, Apr 10-14, 2004 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo 15.57
    2nd Test: West Indies v South Africa at Port of Spain, Apr 8-12, 2005 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo 13.57
    3rd Test: West Indies v South Africa at Bridgetown, Apr 21-24, 2005 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo 15.12
    3rd Test: Australia v West Indies at Adelaide, Nov 25-29, 2005 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo 17.85


    Innings worth average: 4.08 (rank 4)

    25 Test peak adjusted average: 66.55 (2001-2004)
    50 Test peak adjusted average: 60.39 (2000-2005)


    Quality Points: 639
    Career Points: 150 (max points allowed, 173 actual points)
    Peak Points: 137
    TOTAL POINTS: 927


    Brian Charles Lara has played more great innings than any other test batsman in the history of the game. And what makes this stat so impressive is that he played most of those innings with minimal support from teammates. Only two of his great innings resulted in West Indies victories. Those two were in his seminal series against Australia in 1999, perhaps the greatest series of batting that test cricket has ever known. How much more would his innings be worth if West Indies were a stronger team? It is hard to judge. Putting that aside, Lara was often accused of inconsistently, of not turning up. But when he did, he scored mountains of runs, often against top-class bowling attacks. I feel that no.5 is a good place for a batsman that often touched genius but also slightly underachieved and could not drag his team to more wins.
    Last edited by Days of Grace; 31-08-2013 at 08:51 PM.
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    Greatest Ever Test XI: JB Hobbs, L Hutton, DG Bradman (c), IVA Richards, BC Lara, GS Sobers, AC Gilchrist (wk), Imran Khan, RJ Hadlee, MD Marshall, SK Warne 12th man: M Muralitharan


    Favorite XI: WG Grace, VT Trumper, IVA Richards, DCS Compton, FMM Worrell (c), AC Gilchrist (wk), CL Cairns, SK Warne, FS Trueman, SE Bond, T Richardson 12th man: H Larwood

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  11. #596
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend smalishah84's Avatar
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    unfair on Lara to be blamed for the ineptitude of the WI side

    But Brian Charles Lara, WAFG. I feel privileged to have watched his greatest innings live
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    And smalishah's avatar is the most classy one by far Jan certainly echoes the sentiments of CW

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  12. #597
    International Vice-Captain kyear2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Days of Grace View Post
    5. Brian Lara (West Indies) (1990-2006)




    Career Length (Days): 5835
    Percentage of team's matches played: 83%
    Career Average: 52.88
    Adjusted career average: 53.12
    Adjusted away average: 48.78
    Adjusted top-opposition average: 54.40
    Top Tier centuries: 12
    Second tier centuries: 5
    Third tier centuries: 14
    Significant innings: 38
    Significant innings per match: 0.29

    Great innings: 11
    3rd Test: Australia v West Indies at Sydney, Jan 2-6, 1993 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo 13.63
    5th Test: West Indies v England at St John's, Apr 16-21, 1994 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo 14.79
    2nd Test: West Indies v Australia at Kingston, Mar 13-16, 1999 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo 19.58
    3rd Test: West Indies v Australia at Bridgetown, Mar 26-30, 1999 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo 25.49
    3rd Test: Australia v West Indies at Adelaide, Dec 15-19, 2000 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo 13.97
    3rd Test: Sri Lanka v West Indies at Colombo (SSC), Nov 29-Dec 3, 2001 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo 14.28
    1st Test: South Africa v West Indies at Johannesburg, Dec 12-16, 2003 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo 12.83
    4th Test: West Indies v England at St John's, Apr 10-14, 2004 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo 15.57
    2nd Test: West Indies v South Africa at Port of Spain, Apr 8-12, 2005 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo 13.57
    3rd Test: West Indies v South Africa at Bridgetown, Apr 21-24, 2005 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo 15.12
    3rd Test: Australia v West Indies at Adelaide, Nov 25-29, 2005 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo 17.85


    Innings worth average: 4.08

    25 Test peak adjusted average: 66.55 (2001-2004)
    50 Test peak adjusted average: 60.39 (2000-2005)


    Quality Points: 639
    Career Points: 150 (max points allowed, 173 actual points)
    Peak Points: 137
    TOTAL POINTS: 927


    Brian Charles Lara has played more great innings than any other test batsman in the history of the game. And what makes this stat so impressive is that he played most of those innings with minimal support from teammates. Only two of his great innings resulted in West Indies victories. Those two were in his seminal series against Australia in 1999, perhaps the greatest series of batting that test cricket has ever known. How much more would his innings be worth if West Indies were a stronger team? It is hard to judge. Putting that aside, Lara was often accused of inconsistently, of not turning up. But when he did, he scored mountains of runs, often against top-class bowling attacks. I feel that no.5 is a good place for a batsman that often touched genius but also slightly underachieved and could not drag his team to more wins.
    Notg only did the creative genius have that great series againts Australia, but that was a team that had two of the greatest bolwers of all time and one of the greatest attacks period in the history of the game. In fact his two greatest series came againts the three greatest bolwers of his era and undoubtably the two greatest spinners of All Time.

    He was touched by genius, but if any member for the top ten of this list underachieved it was BCL, such was his potential and ability, and I couln't have said it better.

    Top work DoG, keep them coming.

  13. #598
    Hall of Fame Member NUFAN's Avatar
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    Well done Lara, the highest rated batsman from the last few decades is a terrific achievement for the Prince. Love how many great innings he produced.
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  14. #599
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    By any chance, what was Hashan Tillekaratne's double century in that SSC game worth? And will this make Vaas' 14fer a great performance?
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  15. #600
    State Vice-Captain schearzie's Avatar
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    BC Lara scored four of his top five rated innings against Australia at a time when he was needed. He got some rough calls against him sometimes when I'd be watching, and I'd be screaming at the tv how stupid the umpires were. The most exciting batsman I saw and makes me wonder about how exciting Richards must have been when this guy is ALWAYS rated behind him by some people. But so happy Lara featured so highly. For me can't be high enough but well done DoG
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