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DoG's Top 100 Test Batsmen - The Top 25

Cabinet96

Global Moderator
How is smoking Asian teams in Asia any different to smoking Western teams in Western countries?
Haha, so much this. People are so much more obsessed with an ability to play on fast, seaming tracks than slow turning ones. You'd think Australia and England had never produced a flat wicket in their history the way people seem to discount Sanga's runs at home.
 

Migara

Cricketer Of The Year
Haha, so much this. People are so much more obsessed with an ability to play on fast, seaming tracks than slow turning ones. You'd think Australia and England had never produced a flat wicket in their history the way people seem to discount Sanga's runs at home.
Now these were the tracks that were supposed to be tailor made for Muralitharan, and spin paradises.

My bad, I did not understand that pitch can be turned in to a road from a dust bowl from a press of a button, which of course is with the Sri Lankan team.
 

centurymaker

Cricketer Of The Year
(And BTW, he and SRT both averaged same against the current English attack. And we can see how SRt would do against Steyn, Morkel and Philander this time around to get and idea whether Sanga's record against them poor or not.)
You are seriously comparing an average player based on his recent abiltiy (tendulkar) with someone who has been more or less in his peak? Come on. Obviously Sanga is more likely to do well against quality attacks than the recent Tendulkar who's 40+
 
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centurymaker

Cricketer Of The Year
Since Sanga has left the gloves he has been so so good.

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

Except for England and SA (where pretty much all SC batsmen fail) he has done well every where. Over almost a 10 year period and 60 test matches.
Missing the point-
Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

In 29 Tests without gloves against Asians, he avgs 85+ with 15 100s and 13 50s, which is outstanding but it significantly inflates his overall stats, just like how him having played so much at home/in asia has. Maybe if he had never kept, he would've been a true ATG idk. But he did keep wickets from time to time, so thats all we can go by..

Look, if sangakkara had had a couple of truly great series overseas to go with countless great ones at home/in asia, then it would've been a different story- I wouldn't have been dissatisfied with him finishing so high and ahead of so many ATGs.

I just feel you are being quite biased since Sangakkara has thoroughly performed like a god against Pakistan :p with like a 90 avg and 9 100s in dozen or so games. (reminds me of Sehwag in this respect)
 
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centurymaker

Cricketer Of The Year
Now these were the tracks that were supposed to be tailor made for Muralitharan, and spin paradises.

My bad, I did not understand that pitch can be turned in to a road from a dust bowl from a press of a button, which of course is with the Sri Lankan team.
No, Murali is arguably the best bowler ever based on just stats- well ahead of Warne etc IMO
:p

Edit-

Actually I think it is Sanga's ability to score very big 100s that has got him into the Top 10 in DoG's rankings, which probably means that Lara will finish really high!
 
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smash84

The Tiger King
Missing the point-
Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

In 29 Tests without gloves against Asians, he avgs 85+ with 15 100s and 13 50s, which is outstanding but it significantly inflates his overall stats, just like how him having played so much at home/in asia has. Maybe if he had never kept, he would've been a true ATG idk. But he did keep wickets from time to time, so thats all we can go by..

Look, if sangakkara had had a couple of truly great series overseas to go with countless great ones at home/in asia, then it would've been a different story- I wouldn't have been dissatisfied with him finishing so high and ahead of so many ATGs.

I just feel you are being quite biased since Sangakkara has thoroughly performed like a god against Pakistan :p with like a 90 avg and 9 100s in dozen or so games. (reminds me of Sehwag in this respect)
Going just with memory (cbf looking it up) but I think that Sehwag had pummelled more ordinary attacks compared to Sanga.
 

kyear2

Cricketer Of The Year
Now these were the tracks that were supposed to be tailor made for Muralitharan, and spin paradises.

My bad, I did not understand that pitch can be turned in to a road from a dust bowl from a press of a button, which of course is with the Sri Lankan team.
They are tailor made for Murali, the difference is that except for when Warne came to town they were not any other spinners around to exploit them from opposing teams. The tracks are slow and useless for opposing seamers of which most opposing teams attacks are primarily made up. The wickets in Sri Lanka are roads for pace bolwers and cannon fodder for the likes of Sangakkara and Mahela who have fully exploited them. It also wouldn't be so bad if he didn't play such a disproportionate amout of games at home or played more games againts Bangladesh than Australia and all of this in an era Steyn apart is devoid of great fast bolwers.

His numbers in England, South Africa and even the W.I are nothing to write home about and his average in Australia are boosted by his one hundred againts them in a high scoring match where even Mahela scored a hundred in the first innings. Great innings no doubt considering the total they were chasing and his positive intent, but skews his numbers none the less.

Twenty one of his hundreds have been scored at home and 27 of his 33 in the sub continent, yes most batsmen, even the great ones perform better at home than abroad but his is still disproportionate in its extremity.

For me ATG batsman yes, top tier/ top 10 no.
 

centurymaker

Cricketer Of The Year
New prediction-

1. Bradman
2. Hobbs
3. Sobers
4. Viv
5. Lara
6. Hutton
7. Tendulkar
8. Kallis
9. Sangakkara
10. Headley

edit-
I left out Hammond.

8. Hammond
9. Kallis
10. Sangakkara
11. Headley
 
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kyear2

Cricketer Of The Year
No worse than Headley being in the top 10. He was a minnow basher.
Strange because he played no minnows (South Africa, India, New Zealand) before the war and only played againts England and Australia while being part of the weakest batting line up of that and most other eras. You are probably thinking of the other great batsmen of the era.

Before the war Headley averaged over 70 while playing tests in England and Australia while holding the lineup together. He faced all of the great bolwers playing at the time with the exception of Larwood and O'Reilly an that was also because of the sudden "retirement" of Larwood that he never got a chance againts him. All of the other bolwers he faced even if not all at once. Voce, Allen, Verity, Rhodes, Grimmett, Ironmonger. Overall he probably faced a consistently higher level of especially pace bolwing than Hammond and he didn't get to face the minnows like Hammond and Bradman did.
 

kyear2

Cricketer Of The Year
New prediction-

1. Bradman
2. Hobbs
3. Sobers
4. Viv
5. Lara
6. Hutton
7. Tendulkar
8. Kallis
9. Sangakkara
10. Headley
Think Hutton and Headley will both be higher, Hutton due to the bowling attacks he faced and Headley because of his importance to his team.
 

centurymaker

Cricketer Of The Year
Headley only played 22 tests, so will lose a lot for career points AND his non-existent 50 test peak. I would be quite surprised if he finished 8 or higher.
 

Furball

Evil Scotsman
They are tailor made for Murali, the difference is that except for when Warne came to town they were not any other spinners around to exploit them from opposing teams. The tracks are slow and useless for opposing seamers of which most opposing teams attacks are primarily made up. The wickets in Sri Lanka are roads for pace bolwers and cannon fodder for the likes of Sangakkara and Mahela who have fully exploited them. It also wouldn't be so bad if he didn't play such a disproportionate amout of games at home or played more games againts Bangladesh than Australia and all of this in an era Steyn apart is devoid of great fast bolwers.

His numbers in England, South Africa and even the W.I are nothing to write home about and his average in Australia are boosted by his one hundred againts them in a high scoring match where even Mahela scored a hundred in the first innings. Great innings no doubt considering the total they were chasing and his positive intent, but skews his numbers none the less.

Twenty one of his hundreds have been scored at home and 27 of his 33 in the sub continent, yes most batsmen, even the great ones perform better at home than abroad but his is still disproportionate in its extremity.

For me ATG batsman yes, top tier/ top 10 no.
So you're saying high scores push a batsman's average up? Cheers for that insight.
 

Migara

Cricketer Of The Year
You are seriously comparing an average player based on his recent abiltiy (tendulkar) with someone who has been more or less in his peak? Come on. Obviously Sanga is more likely to do well against quality attacks than the recent Tendulkar who's 40+
Sanga and SRT bothe average very similar against Donald and Pollock. SRT was in his peak, and Sanga was starting his career. So could be argued otherway round as well.
 

Migara

Cricketer Of The Year
They are tailor made for Murali, the difference is that except for when Warne came to town they were not any other spinners around to exploit them from opposing teams.
Hi! says Saqlain and Vettori.

The tracks are slow and useless for opposing seamers of which most opposing teams attacks are primarily made up.
Simply opposing seamers did not know how to bowl. Just check what Wasim, Waqar and Asif did on these tracks as well as Vaas. It was inability of the touring seamers rather than pitches.

The wickets in Sri Lanka are roads for pace bolwers and cannon fodder for the likes of Sangakkara and Mahela who have fully exploited them. It also wouldn't be so bad if he didn't play such a disproportionate amout of games at home or played more games againts Bangladesh than Australia and all of this in an era Steyn apart is devoid of great fast bolwers.
If SL played Australia more or in Aus more Sanga would have had much better stats! He loves batting in Austraia than in Bangladesh or India.


His numbers in England, South Africa and even the W.I are nothing to write home about and his average in Australia are boosted by his one hundred againts them in a high scoring match where even Mahela scored a hundred in the first innings. Great innings no doubt considering the total they were chasing and his positive intent, but skews his numbers none the less.
Excuses, excuses. Have a three test series tomorrow in WI against WI, Sanga is pretty dead set to score more than 300 runs for the series.

Twenty one of his hundreds have been scored at home and 27 of his 33 in the sub continent, yes most batsmen, even the great ones perform better at home than abroad but his is still disproportionate in its extremity.
Jou just said he has played a lot in SC? Then must have more centuries in SC than in other countries. Can't have the cake and eat it too.

85 out of 117 in SC (73%) and 27 out of 33 centuries in SC (82%) (ratio 1.12). And the God played 121 out of 198 in SC (61%) and has 33 out of 51 centuries in SC (65%) (ratio 1.06). Even stevens all the way.

And for all ASIAN batsmen, there has been 547 matches out of 980 in total where 676 out of 995 centuries were at SC. (ratio 1.21)
 
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smash84

The Tiger King
Interesting dense this on Sanga. Did he make it to Smali's cw50?
No, he didn't make the cut. Miandad was at 50.

I think Sangakkara suffers because he is from SL and most people when they think of cricket generally don't think too much about SL cricket.
 

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