DoG's Top 100 Test Batsmen: 50-26

[NUFAN]

Weird question but do Younis Khan's runs in the UAE count on his adjusted away average?

 

[Pothas]

Never really thought Younis was underated as such but he is rather forgotten, amazing to see him this high though.

 

[Days of Grace]

Weird question but do Younis Khan's runs in the UAE count on his adjusted away average?

It's actually a non-home average, so any matches played outside of your own country count towards it. For example, Australia vs. Pakistan in England in 2010 was a non-home series for both teams.

However, and this is important, all matches played by Pakistan since about the turn of the century in the UAE are counted as home matches, since they are for all intents and purposes just that.

 

[ankitj]

These must be the 30 batsmen to come:

[TABLE="width: 637"]
[TR]
[TD][B]AUS[/B][/TD]
[TD][B]ENG[/B][/TD]
[TD][B]WI[/B][/TD]
[TD][B]IND[/B][/TD]
[TD][B]PAK[/B][/TD]
[TD][B]SA[/B][/TD]
[TD][B]SL[/B][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Bradman[/TD]
[TD]Hobbs[/TD]
[TD]Sobers[/TD]
[TD]Tendulkar[/TD]
[TD]Miandad[/TD]
[TD]Pollock[/TD]
[TD]Sangakkara[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Chappell[/TD]
[TD]Hammond[/TD]
[TD]Viv Richards[/TD]
[TD]Gavaskar[/TD]
[TD]Haq[/TD]
[TD]Kallis[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Ponting[/TD]
[TD]Hutton[/TD]
[TD]Lara[/TD]
[TD]Dravid[/TD]
[TD]Yousuf[/TD]
[TD]Nourse[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Border[/TD]
[TD]Suttcliffe[/TD]
[TD]Weekes[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]S. Waugh[/TD]
[TD]Barrington[/TD]
[TD]Walcott[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Hayden[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Chanderpaul[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Harvey[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Lloyd[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Headley[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[bagapath]

since this is purely a statistical exercise i do hope g.pollock and headley do not figure so far up in the list.

 

[NUFAN]

It's actually a non-home average, so any matches played outside of your own country count towards it. For example, Australia vs. Pakistan in England in 2010 was a non-home series for both teams.

However, and this is important, all matches played by Pakistan since about the turn of the century in the UAE are counted as home matches, since they are for all intents and purposes just that.

Sweet. That's the way I would have done it. So you can continue with the countdown

 

[Spikey]

chanders for the top 10

 

[Coronis]

since this is purely a statistical exercise i do hope g.pollock and headley do not figure so far up in the list.

IIRC, players with <50 tests had their points lowered according to their number of tests. What a brilliant bunch of players. Got to admit, Lloyd is a surprise for me.

 

[Days of Grace]

I have made some slight adjustments on the run. Basically just smoothed out the quality and career points so there is more of a balance between them. Quality points now count towards 70.83% of the total rating (slightly more than before) with career points 12.5% (slightly less) and the peak remaining at 16.67% of the total rating. Here is the revised top 100 so far, with movements in rankings bracketed. Keep in mind that the ratings are still based on stats before the start of the current Ashes series.

31 MJ Clarke 794 (+1)
32 Younis Khan 792 (-1)
33 HM Amla 791
34 AC Gilchrist 789 (+1)
35 AB de Villiers 787 (+1)
36 DCS Compton 787(-2)
37 PBH May 779 (+1)
38 RB Kanhai 778 (-1)
39 A Flower 777
40 FMM Worrell 776
41 DPMD Jayawardene 775
42 V Sehwag 766 (+1)
43 KD Walters 761 (-1)
44 RB Simpson 757 (+1)
45 G Boycott 756 (-1)
46 Saeed Anwar 751 (+3)
47 GC Smith 750
48 GA Gooch 749 (-2)
49 CG Greenidge 749 (+1)
50 DR Martyn 749 (-2)
51 C Hill 746 (+1)
52 AN Cook 743 (-1)
53 GA Faulkner 741
54 JL Langer 739 (+4)
55 MEK Hussey 739
56 KP Pietersen 739 (+1)
57 VVS Laxman 737 (+2)
58 B Mitchell 736 (-2)
59 MC Cowdrey 735 (-5)
60 GP Thorpe 733
61 G Kirsten 732
62 WM Lawry 727 (+1)
63 VT Trumper 726 (+3)
64 ME Waugh 724 (-2)
65 SJ McCabe 724 (+3)
66 MD Crowe 721 (-2)
67 HW Taylor 721 (-2)
68 DI Gower 718 (-1)
69 MA Taylor 712
70 Hanif Mohammad 711
71 VS Hazare 707
72 CG Macartney 699 (+1)
73 RB Richardson 699 (-1)
74 DJ McGlew 697
75 CS Dempster 695 (+2)
76 GR Viswanath 693 (-1)
77 AL Hassett 691 (-1)
78 Saleem Malik 690
79 SM Nurse 688 (+7)
80 WH Ponsford 688 (+3)
81 IR Redpath 688 (+1)
82 AR Morris 687 (+3)
83 E Paynter 687 (+6)
84 M Azharuddin 686 (-5)
85 DJ Cullinan 686 (-1)
86 PA de Silva 685 (-6)
87 TT Samaraweera 684
88 DL Haynes 682 (-7)
89 IJL Trott 679 (+4)
90 Zaheer Abbas 678 (+5)
91 M Leyland 678 (-1)
92 BF Butcher 677 (+4)
93 AI Kallicharran 676 (-1)
94 DC Boon 674 (+3)
95 AJ Stewart 673 (-7)
96 R Abel 672 (+3)
97 EH Hendren 672 (+1)
98 DB Vengsarkar 671 (-4)
99 IM Chappell 671 (-2)
100 MJ Slater 667 (+1)

 

[kyear2]

May be this ranking exposes some of our biases? May be our perceptions are colored rather than this system being faulty?

Or that numbers don't tell the entire story. A Chanderpaul or Barrington ranks lower for me because in my estimation they played primarily for themselves and even a Kallis would fall into that catergory as well. It's much easier to maintain an average when ones plays overly cautiously and thier main focus is their own average and not the game situation. It also places more pressure on the players around them to score and it isn't that difficult to leave everything until you receive a half volley or one on the pads. The agressive players who take on the bowling and have the ability to take over an innings or game and turn the tide in a asession will always be rated higher in my humble estimation.

If I had to choose between Lloyd and Chanderpaul for my XI, would be a no contest, Clive was very under rated who faced some pretty tough attacks. Why I though Worrell and May would be higher is because May has one of the highest peak batting ratings and in a era of home track bullies Worrell had some wonderful performances overseas. No more , no less.

 

[kyear2]

I have made some slight adjustments on the run. Basically just smoothed out the quality and career points so there is more of a balance between them. Quality points now count towards 70.83% of the total rating (slightly more than before) with career points 12.5% (slightly less) and the peak remaining at 16.67% of the total rating. Here is the revised top 100 so far, with movements in rankings bracketed. Keep in mind that the ratings are still based on stats before the start of the current Ashes series.

31 MJ Clarke 794 (+1)
32 Younis Khan 792 (-1)
33 HM Amla 791
34 AC Gilchrist 789 (+1)
35 AB de Villiers 787 (+1)
36 DCS Compton 787(-2)
37 PBH May 779 (+1)
38 RB Kanhai 778 (-1)
39 A Flower 777
40 FMM Worrell 776
41 DPMD Jayawardene 775
42 V Sehwag 766 (+1)
43 KD Walters 761 (-1)
44 RB Simpson 757 (+1)
45 G Boycott 756 (-1)
46 Saeed Anwar 751 (+3)
47 GC Smith 750
48 GA Gooch 749 (-2)
49 CG Greenidge 749 (+1)
50 DR Martyn 749 (-2)
51 C Hill 746 (+1)
52 AN Cook 743 (-1)
53 GA Faulkner 741
54 JL Langer 739 (+4)
55 MEK Hussey 739
56 KP Pietersen 739 (+1)
57 VVS Laxman 737 (+2)
58 B Mitchell 736 (-2)
59 MC Cowdrey 735 (-5)
60 GP Thorpe 733
61 G Kirsten 732
62 WM Lawry 727 (+1)
63 VT Trumper 726 (+3)
64 ME Waugh 724 (-2)
65 SJ McCabe 724 (+3)
66 MD Crowe 721 (-2)
67 HW Taylor 721 (-2)
68 DI Gower 718 (-1)
69 MA Taylor 712
70 Hanif Mohammad 711
71 VS Hazare 707
72 CG Macartney 699 (+1)
73 RB Richardson 699 (-1)
74 DJ McGlew 697
75 CS Dempster 695 (+2)
76 GR Viswanath 693 (-1)
77 AL Hassett 691 (-1)
78 Saleem Malik 690
79 SM Nurse 688 (+7)
80 WH Ponsford 688 (+3)
81 IR Redpath 688 (+1)
82 AR Morris 687 (+3)
83 E Paynter 687 (+6)
84 M Azharuddin 686 (-5)
85 DJ Cullinan 686 (-1)
86 PA de Silva 685 (-6)
87 TT Samaraweera 684
88 DL Haynes 682 (-7)
89 IJL Trott 679 (+4)
90 Zaheer Abbas 678 (+5)
91 M Leyland 678 (-1)
92 BF Butcher 677 (+4)
93 AI Kallicharran 676 (-1)
94 DC Boon 674 (+3)
95 AJ Stewart 673 (-7)
96 R Abel 672 (+3)
97 EH Hendren 672 (+1)
98 DB Vengsarkar 671 (-4)
99 IM Chappell 671 (-2)
100 MJ Slater 667 (+1)

Just great work DOG, kepp them coming.

 

[kyear2]

These must be the 30 batsmen to come:

[TABLE="width: 637"]
[TR]
[TD][B]AUS[/B][/TD]
[TD][B]ENG[/B][/TD]
[TD][B]WI[/B][/TD]
[TD][B]IND[/B][/TD]
[TD][B]PAK[/B][/TD]
[TD][B]SA[/B][/TD]
[TD][B]SL[/B][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Bradman[/TD]
[TD]Hobbs[/TD]
[TD]Sobers[/TD]
[TD]Tendulkar[/TD]
[TD]Miandad[/TD]
[TD]Pollock[/TD]
[TD]Sangakkara[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Chappell[/TD]
[TD]Hammond[/TD]
[TD]Viv Richards[/TD]
[TD]Gavaskar[/TD]
[TD]Haq[/TD]
[TD]Kallis[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Ponting[/TD]
[TD]Hutton[/TD]
[TD]Lara[/TD]
[TD]Dravid[/TD]
[TD]Yousuf[/TD]
[TD]Nourse[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Border[/TD]
[TD]Suttcliffe[/TD]
[TD]Weekes[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]S. Waugh[/TD]
[TD]Barrington[/TD]
[TD]Walcott[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Hayden[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Chanderpaul[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Harvey[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Lloyd[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Headley[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Agreed, but not in that order though.

since this is purely a statistical exercise i do hope g.pollock and headley do not figure so far up in the list.

Why is that? Two of the best ever.

 

[smash84]

wow.......younis khan at 32 of all time ahead of so many great batsman. I can't imagine putting Younis before Saeed Anwar but here he is.

 

[Days of Grace]

30. Dudley Nourse (South Africa) (1935-1951)

Career Average: 53.81
Adjusted career average: 55.23
Adjusted away average: 44.86
Adjusted top-opposition average: 55.47
Top Tier centuries: 2
Second tier centuries: 3
Third tier centuries: 4
Significant innings: 7
Significant innings per match: 0.21

Great innings: 3
2nd Test: South Africa v Australia at Johannesburg, Dec 24-28, 1935 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo 15.31
4th Test: South Africa v England at Johannesburg, Feb 12-16, 1949 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo 12.83
1st Test: England v South Africa at Nottingham, Jun 7-12, 1951 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo 13.79


Innings worth average: 3.70

25 Test peak adjusted average: 65.98 (1935-1951)


Quality Points: 613
Career Points: 67
Peak Points: 115
TOTAL POINTS: 795





29. Clive Lloyd (West Indies) (1966-1985)

Career Average: 46.67
Adjusted career average: 45.78
Adjusted away average: 47.01
Adjusted top-opposition average: 45.59
Top Tier centuries: 3
Second tier centuries: 6
Third tier centuries: 10
Significant innings: 42
Significant innings per match: 0.38

Great innings: 5
1st Test: Australia v West Indies at Brisbane, Dec 6-10, 1968 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo 13.03
4th Test: West Indies v Australia at Georgetown, Apr 6-11, 1973 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo 12.84
1st Test: India v West Indies at Bangalore, Nov 22-27, 1974 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo 12.98
5th Test: India v West Indies at Mumbai, Jan 23-29, 1975 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo 13.13
5th Test: India v West Indies at Kolkata, Dec 10-14, 1983 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo 16.25


Innings worth average: 3.46

25 Test peak adjusted average: 60.18 (1981-1984)
50 Test peak adjusted average: 50.49 (1976-1984)


Quality Points: 559
Career Points: 115
Peak Points: 122
TOTAL POINTS: 796

 

[kyear2]

MoYO, Chanders and Harvey in the next group probably?

 

[smash84]

Clive Lloyd breaks into the top 30. Generally very under rated.

 

[Pothas]

Nourse got some mighty impressive numbers.

 

[Days of Grace]

28. Mohammad Yousuf (Pakistan) (1998-2010)

Career Average: 52.29
Adjusted career average: 48.65
Adjusted away average: 43.31
Adjusted top-opposition average: 39.92
Top Tier centuries: 1
Second tier centuries: 7
Third tier centuries: 7
Significant innings: 35
Significant innings per match: 0.39

Great innings: 5
2nd Test: West Indies v Pakistan at Bridgetown, May 18-22, 2000 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo 13.52
2nd Test: Bangladesh v Pakistan at Chittagong, Jan 16-18, 2002 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo 12.88
3rd Test: Pakistan v England at Lahore, Nov 29-Dec 3, 2005 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo 13.35
1st Test: England v Pakistan at Lord's, Jul 13-17, 2006 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo 13.73
3rd Test: South Africa v Pakistan at Cape Town, Jan 26-28, 2007 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo 14.96


Innings worth average: 3.59

25 Test peak adjusted average: 63.24 (2005-2009)
50 Test peak adjusted average: 59.56 (2000-2006)


Quality Points: 561
Career Points: 92
Peak Points: 143
TOTAL POINTS: 796



MoYo has the lowest top-opposition average of anyone in the top 50.



27. Clyde Walcott (West Indies) (1948-1960)

Career Average: 56.68
Adjusted career average: 54.58
Adjusted away average: 39.37
Adjusted top-opposition average: 52.95
Top Tier centuries: 3
Second tier centuries: 0
Third tier centuries: 9
Significant innings: 12
Significant innings per match: 0.27

Great innings: 1
2nd Test: West Indies v England at Bridgetown, Feb 6-12, 1954 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo 20.45


Innings worth average: 3.75

25 Test peak adjusted average: 71.07 (1953-1960)


Quality Points: 622
Career Points: 50
Peak Points: 131
TOTAL POINTS: 802




Walcott's away average lets him down, as does the fact that many of his big innings resulted in high scoring draws or didn't save his side from losing. I wanted to have him higher up. At least in the 21-25 range.

 

[Dissector]

Walcott was something of a flat-track bully who averaged 15 in Australia and 34 in England. I would probably rate him below, say, Clive Lloyd who hit two hundreds against Lillee and Thompson at their peak and that legendary double hundred against India's spinners.

Great work and looking forward to the home stretch.

 

[harsh.ag]

Walcott was something of a flat-track bully who averaged 15 in Australia and 34 in England. I would probably rate him below, say, Clive Lloyd who hit two hundreds against Lillee and Thompson at their peak and that legendary double hundred against India's spinners.

Great work and looking forward to the home stretch.

People I have spoken to always rate Weekes, Worrell and Kanhai higher than Walcott, though not Lloyd specifically.