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Thread: Conflict within 'the spirit of the game'.

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    International Regular NasserFan207's Avatar
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    Conflict within 'the spirit of the game'.

    So about a month ago, Ramdin was punished by the ICC for claiming a grounded catch, and going against 'the spirit of the game'.

    Whats the difference between claiming a grounded catch, and not walking when you know 100% that you are out aka Stuart Broad?

    Interested to see opinions
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    Quote Originally Posted by NasserFan207 View Post
    So about a month ago, Ramdin was punished by the ICC for claiming a grounded catch, and going against 'the spirit of the game'.

    Whats the difference between claiming a grounded catch, and not walking when you know 100% that you are out aka Stuart Broad?

    Interested to see opinions
    Claiming a catch when you know it's bounced is cheating, and against the Laws, because you are actively trying to convince the umpire that something has happened when it hasn't. Not walking when you nick it is not actively trying to convince the umpire of anything, therefore it is not cheating and not against the Laws of the game.

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    State Captain harsh.ag's Avatar
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    In the golden word of The Shins:
    Close your eyes to corral a virtue,

    Is this fooling anyone else?
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    To cement a failure.


    The above lines show why it is such a futile thing to differentiate between the two from an individual morality non-game theory point of view. But, from a systemic point of view, where the players engage in long-term game theory situations - As long as it follows the letter of the law, it is within the spirit of the game, because if we follow the spirit of the law then we leave the system open to manipulation (far too wide a range of manipulation) in the long term.
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    International Regular NasserFan207's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoggy_Bear View Post
    Claiming a catch when you know it's bounced is cheating, and against the Laws, because you are actively trying to convince the umpire that something has happened when it hasn't. Not walking when you nick it is not actively trying to convince the umpire of anything, therefore it is not cheating and not against the Laws of the game.
    Why should the fielder be responsible for informing the umpire, but not the batsmen?


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    Cricket Web Staff Member / Global Moderator Neil Pickup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NasserFan207 View Post
    Why should the fielder be responsible for informing the umpire, but not the batsmen?
    Because the fielder has a direct role in the process of the appeal whereas the batsman has none.
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    International Regular NasserFan207's Avatar
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    Right, but in essence its still the same thing. By standing your ground you are saying 'I didn't hit it', at least from a psychological point of view. You are appealing to the umpire not to give you out.

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    Hall of Fame Member Marcuss's Avatar
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    No you're not.

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    International Regular NasserFan207's Avatar
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    Umpires change their decisions based on the reactions of batsmen all the time. Certainly at the level I play, and probably at test level too. Its just people don't talk about it much IMO

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    Hall of Fame Member Marcuss's Avatar
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    Yeah, you don't get elected to the ICC Elite Panel if you go making decisions based on body language
    bagapath and Dan like this.

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    Hall of Fame Member Furball's Avatar
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    It's down to umpires to give players out.

    Asking players to walk is a crock of ****.
    bagapath and Spark like this.

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    Players don't walk these days. Do the crims walk? Did Clarke at Adelaide when he hit the cover off it from KP?

    Can't claim any moral high ground because he pissed away his reviews.

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    State Captain theegyptian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NasserFan207 View Post
    So about a month ago, Ramdin was punished by the ICC for claiming a grounded catch, and going against 'the spirit of the game'.

    Whats the difference between claiming a grounded catch, and not walking when you know 100% that you are out aka Stuart Broad?

    Interested to see opinions
    Whatever the rights or wrongs of it not walking is accepted within the game, claiming a catch when you haven't caught it isn't.

    Whether Ramdin's punishment is inline with similar offences of claiming a catch is another matter. But the fact that he did it in a global tournament where all the big teams were playing certainly worked against him in this case as he may have been made an example of.

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    Cricketer Of The Year Agent Nationaux's Avatar
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    In terms of following the rules, Ramdin was a cheat whereas Broad didn't do anything wrong. But in terms of ethics and morals, both are ****s.
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    International Regular kyear2's Avatar
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    Both are the same as far as I am concerned, both is cheeting and there is a hyprocricy in the rules to alow the batsmen to cheet and punish the fielder to do the same. punish both or allow both. Plus the same way that the umpire has the authority to review Ramdin's snuff, let the third umpire do the same for obvious mistakes. Do like the NFL and allow reviews an all scoring plays (dismissals) and close calls. Each captain gets one and the third umpire keeps an eye on things for only the absolute howlers.
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    Cricket Web Staff Member fredfertang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theegyptian View Post
    Whatever the rights or wrongs of it not walking is accepted within the game, claiming a catch when you haven't caught it isn't.

    Whether Ramdin's punishment is inline with similar offences of claiming a catch is another matter. But the fact that he did it in a global tournament where all the big teams were playing certainly worked against him in this case as he may have been made an example of.
    This - there are some who will try and draw a nonsensical distinction between the Broad situation and where the batsman feathers the ball to the keeper, but the reality is most batsman don't ever walk, which to my mind is a great shame, but there you have it - at the level I used to play at the game would be unworkable if batsmen weren't honest about edges but that's not the case at higher levels. Imo Broad is certainly in the wrong, and I would question his sportsmanship, but I wouldn't accuse him of trying to cheat.
    JBMAC likes this.

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