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Thread: ATG XI- Open Voting

  1. #76
    International Vice-Captain centurymaker's Avatar
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    1st XI
    Gavaskar
    Hobbs
    Bradman
    Richards
    Tendulkar
    Sobers
    Gilchrist
    Khan
    Marshall
    Warne
    McGrath

    2nd XI
    Sutcliffe
    Hutton
    Headley
    Chappell
    Hammond
    Kallis
    Miller
    Knott
    Ambrose
    Lillee
    Murali
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  2. #77
    International Vice-Captain centurymaker's Avatar
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    For me these guys are non-negotiable-

    Bradman, Sobers, Imran, Hobbs, Viv, Tendulkar, Warne, Marshall, Gilly.

    So I only had to decide between Hutton and Gavaskar, McGrath and Lillee.

  3. #78
    International Vice-Captain kyear2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by watson View Post
    In my ATG middle-order, Bradman, Lara, and Sobers are pretty much non-negotiables who write themselves into the team as a matter of course. This leaves one middle-order position open which can be taken by Pollock, Viv Richards, Tendulkar, or Greg Chappell. And perhaps Headley or Hammond.

    To be honest anyone of those 6 batsman would more than do the job, but all things considered, the middle-order combination of Lara-Pollock-Sobers just appears too awesome for words - it is the combination that I would selfishly want to sit down and watch.

    Although Lara-Tendulkar-Sobers maybe preferenced for a test match in Mumbai, and Lara-Richards-Sobers maybe preferenced for a Test match in Antigua.

    I agree that Pollock 'somehow managed to miss all of the great Aussie and English fast bowlers' - so there is an element of 'going with potential' rather than 'going with the actual'. But by the same token, when he did bat against the best bowlers there were enough centuries to keep that worry to a minimum.
    Those nine (9) do for me form the top tier of middle order batsmen and along with Hobbs my top 10 batsmen of All Time, so no argument here. In the future we may also place Ponting into that group when we get a chance to sit and reflect on what he has really accomplished, also Walcott does get under rated a bit as a batsman and just may also belong in that group.
    Aus. XI
    Simpson^ | Hayden | Bradman | Chappell^ | Ponting | Border* | Gilchrist+ | Davidson3 | Warne4^ | Lillee1 | McGrath2


    W.I. XI
    Greenidge | Hunte | Richards^ | Headley* | Lara^ | Sobers5^ | Walcott+ | Marshall1 | Ambrose2 | Holding3 | Garner4

    S.A. XI
    Richards^ | Smith*^ | Amla | Pollock | Kallis5^ | Nourse | Waite+ | Procter3 | Steyn1 | Tayfield4 | Donald2

    Eng. XI
    Hobbs | Hutton*^ | Hammond^ | Compton | Barrington | Botham5^ | Knott | Trueman1 | Laker4 | Larwood2 | Barnes3

  4. #79
    State Vice-Captain schearzie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by centurymaker View Post
    For me these guys are non-negotiable-

    Bradman, Sobers, Imran, Hobbs, Viv, Tendulkar, Warne, Marshall, Gilly.

    So I only had to decide between Hutton and Gavaskar, McGrath and Lillee.
    Bradman Sobers and Marshall were the best of what they did, probably Warne as well, the others even though they may be as brilliant would you still say they're a level below those guys?
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  5. #80
    International Vice-Captain kyear2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by schearzie View Post
    Bradman Sobers and Marshall were the best of what they did, probably Warne as well, the others even though they may be as brilliant would you still say they're a level below those guys?
    Would add Hobbs to that list as well.

    Bradman, Sobers, Marshall, Hobbs, Warne.

  6. #81
    International Vice-Captain watson's Avatar
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    A last word on the two South Africans;

    I consider Barry Richards to be the best batsman I have ever seen, and it was very sad that he was lost to international cricket because of apartheid. He played in only 4 Tests, during which he averaged 75. I know that people will argue that you cannot judge a man on four Tests, but I maintain that he was the best, and there are a lot of very knowledgeable people in the game who would agree with me.


    Umpire "Dickie" Bird - My 'Autobiography' (page312)
    Barry Richards once made a fifty against a club side while turning the bat sideways and using the edge, back in the day when the edge of a bat was slightly thicker than a padded envelope. David English recalled the time that Richards turned out for his charity side, the Bunburys: "He flew from Queensland specially to play against Norma Major's XI at Alconbury. He had no gear, just a well worn pair of golf shoes. With hastily borrowed equipment and a bat so old cobwebs still adorned the handle, the Master, bespectacled, stood at the crease and proceeded tentatively at first, to perform his strokes from memory. He had not lifted a bat for 12 years but scored 52."


    http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog...rd-old-batsman

    Then we come to Graeme Pollock at number five. Now I believe he was the best left-hander I have ever seen, and I've seen some great ones - Neil Harvey (Australia), Brian Lara (West indies), Allan Border (Australia), and David Gower and Willie Watson (England).....

    If you think that I have possibly gone over the top in assessing Pollock as the greatest left-hander of them all, I remember Sir Donald Bradman being quoted in a newspaper many years ago as saying that Pollock was the best player he had seen, which coming from Sir Donald must mean something, Pollock really was something very special.


    Umpire "Dickie" Bird - 'My Autobiography' (pages 318-19)
    Admittedly, if you looked hard enough you'd probably find about 10 supposed quotes on 10 batsman where Sir Donald thought that so-and-so was the 'best player he had seen'. However, this still doesn't detract from the fact that Pollock was a highly regarded batsman.
    Last edited by watson; 29-06-2013 at 10:02 PM.
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    Tendulkar - M.Waugh - Ponting - Richards - Dhoni - Bevan - Kapil Dev - Hadlee - Akram - Garner - Muralitharan

  7. #82
    International Captain ankitj's Avatar
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    Eagerly waiting for the day when people stop pretending with a straight face that Warne is a certainty/non-negotiable in a world XI. There's competition guys, very strong one at that.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyear2 View Post
    Would add Hobbs to that list as well.

    Bradman, Sobers, Marshall, Hobbs, Warne.
    Replace Warne with Gilchrist and thats my 5. Warne is definitely not clearly better than Murali.
    ATG World XI
    1. J.B Hobbs 2. H. Sutcliffe 3. D.G Bradman 4. W.R Hammond 5. G.S Sobers 6. M.J Procter 7. A.C Gilchrist 8. M.D Marshall 9. S.K Warne 10. M. Muralitharan 11. G.D McGrath

  9. #84
    International Vice-Captain centurymaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by schearzie View Post
    Bradman Sobers and Marshall were the best of what they did, probably Warne as well, the others even though they may be as brilliant would you still say they're a level below those guys?
    Well,

    Imran-- best bowling all-rounder ever. This guy is the best player to have come out of the subcontinent at the bare minimum.
    Richards-- This is Sir Vivian Richards. Not only did he excel in batting like other greats, he also intimidated every bowler along the way in a era where bowlers had everything their way. He is only 2nd to Bradman.
    Tendulkar-- If you don't let short term memory bias affect your judgment then you realize what a freak he has been. Don't even need to consider his perfectionist way of batting, his legacy, etc. His numbers alone warrant him a spot.
    Hobbs-- You can call him the pioneer of batting and he was well ahead of his peers, so ATG XI is incomplete without him.


    Warne -- Best leg-spinner ever, so he has to be there.

    Went with McGrath over Lille due to his consistency and longevity. Say whatever but it is always harder to perform at the very high level for longer.
    Gavaskar over Hutton because he played in a far more demanding era and he excelled when all his teammates around him were almost sitting-ducks
    Last edited by centurymaker; 29-06-2013 at 11:09 PM.

  10. #85
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend smalishah84's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by schearzie View Post
    Bradman Sobers and Marshall were the best of what they did, probably Warne as well, the others even though they may be as brilliant would you still say they're a level below those guys?
    There isn't really anything to suggest that Warne was better than Murali (at least as a bowler).

    And would you like to make a case as to why Imran would be a level below Marshall, Warne and Sobers as a cricketer?
    And smalishah's avatar is the most classy one by far Jan certainly echoes the sentiments of CW

    Yeah we don't crap in the first world; most of us would actually have no idea what that was emanating from Ajmal's backside. Why isn't it roses and rainbows like what happens here? PEWS's retort to Ganeshran on Daemon's picture depicting Ajmal's excreta

  11. #86
    International Vice-Captain watson's Avatar
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    In hindsight this is a poll-only sort of thread, and so while Smalis point is a good one, it probably belongs in the ATG arguing discussing thread, or whatever it's called.

  12. #87
    State Vice-Captain schearzie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smalishah84 View Post
    There isn't really anything to suggest that Warne was better than Murali (at least as a bowler).

    And would you like to make a case as to why Imran would be a level below Marshall, Warne and Sobers as a cricketer?
    As a bowler Imran's record wasn't as strong everywhere as Marshall, I think he averaged high 20's in Australia and India. A great record, not the same as Marshall's class. I won't deny Warne is a hardr case, but leg spin is different to Akram's Game.
    Also find that Akram is often held up against Keith Miller, both are bowling allrounders, and everyone has their own favourite.
    Sobers, wasn't a great fast bowler like Akram, but he had off and leg spin and all round fielding.
    Akram was great, and won't be left out of many ATG teams, BUT he will miss some.
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  13. #88
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend smalishah84's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smalishah84 View Post
    There isn't really anything to suggest that Warne was better than Murali (at least as a bowler).

    And would you like to make a case as to why Imran would be a level below Marshall, Warne and Sobers as a cricketer?
    Quote Originally Posted by schearzie View Post
    As a bowler Imran's record wasn't as strong everywhere as Marshall, I think he averaged high 20's in Australia and India. A great record, not the same as Marshall's class. I won't deny Warne is a hardr case, but leg spin is different to Akram's Game.
    Also find that Akram is often held up against Keith Miller, both are bowling allrounders, and everyone has their own favourite.
    Sobers, wasn't a great fast bowler like Akram, but he had off and leg spin and all round fielding.
    Akram was great, and won't be left out of many ATG teams, BUT he will miss some.

  14. #89
    International Vice-Captain kyear2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 8ankitj View Post
    Eagerly waiting for the day when people stop pretending with a straight face that Warne is a certainty/non-negotiable in a world XI. There's competition guys, very strong one at that.
    As i have recently stated in the ATG thread, as bowlers I can find nothing to separate them and for me they are equals. What separates them for me and I would guess for others as well is is that Warne unquestionably tyhe better cricketer with his batting and just as important his slip fielding.

  15. #90
    International Vice-Captain kyear2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coronis View Post
    Replace Warne with Gilchrist and thats my 5. Warne is definitely not clearly better than Murali.
    I agree to a certain degree, as in a list of my top cricketers Gilly is in the top 5. For a ATG XI though while Gilchrist is the best keeper batsman ever, a lot of people do prefer a superior keeper and as such he is not seen as totally non negotiable. With Warne, while not clearly better strictly as a bowler he does bring more to a team.

    I personally have seven non negotiables and in order of how I rank them. Sobers, Bradman, Marshall, Gilchrist, Richards, Hobbs and Warne. Sachin and Glenn gets in because of their amazing longevity and consistency but mainly their astounding numbers and their success everywhere. Hutton has been more succesfull againts great bowlers than any other opener and he bests out Richards, though I prefer more assertive batsmen, he would anchor the team. Imran is the best bowling all rounder and along with Akram and Garner the best old ball bolwers.

    Quote Originally Posted by smalishah84 View Post
    There isn't really anything to suggest that Warne was better than Murali (at least as a bowler).

    And would you like to make a case as to why Imran would be a level below Marshall, Warne and Sobers as a cricketer?
    Sobers was the best All Rounder to play the game and has been unanimously accepted as such. Where he separates from Imran is that he has dominated series with the bat, ball and as a fielder at the same time. He is one of a handful of batsmen (probably 4 or 5) who can be legitimately seen as the best after Bradman, he is arguably and probably the greatest fielder ever and the most versatile bolwer the game has seen. Warne mastered the most difficult skill in the game and the first and only to do since covered pitches and was seen as a match winner and along with Gilchrist and Mcgrath seen as the cornerstone of one of the two greatest teams ever. My top three players as stated above are Bradman, comfortably the greatest batsman, Sobers the best All Rounder and Marshall for me clearly the greatest bolwer and matchwinner. He was equally great and succesful everywhere and againts everyone mastering all conditions and he took the W.I over the top as arguably the greatest team of All Time despite the declining skills of Richards and the retirement of Lloyd, Holding, Roberts ect. Imran was a great bolwer, but no where as good on the road as he was at home, he was seen as a bolwing all rounder, but his batting never came on until after his injury and his bolwing decline, he never dominated a series with bat and ball like Sobers or even Miller or Botham. He was a below average fielder and other perhiperal issues that prevent me from placing him above the others I named and additionally Gilchrist who revolutionised his position.

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