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Thread: Who is the most overated player from the subcontinent, ever?

  1. #31
    Virat Kohli (c) Jono's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono View Post
    Nasser Hussain
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    Got to be rated first.
    Quote Originally Posted by wpdavid View Post
    Nah. I don't know anyone who thinks he was an ATG. If anything he's rather under-rated by folks who don't bother looking beyond his overall test average.
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  2. #32
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Uppercut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyear2 View Post
    Akran is a funny case, if Cricinfo was c alling him the third best fast bowler or best bowling All Rounder then he was over rated, but from reading an interview afterwards, that was probably not the case "There's no point picking four new-ball bowlers if only two can share it", it's possible Akran was selected as he was a wizard with the old ball and would also provide variety with his LH fast bowling and also provide some extra footmarks for Warne and Sobers. In that scenario he isn't over rated but part of a great attack.
    Just my take.
    Yeah I think more people underrate him than overrate him because they don't consider this.

    It's a textbook troll but I genuinely think it's Tendulkar.
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  3. #33
    Virat Kohli (c) Jono's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cabinet96 View Post
    Great players can still be overrated.
    Its amazing that people never understand this.

    I agree that Tendulkar is overrated in the strictest definition - i.e. that some think he is a guaranteed #2 of all time or even better than Bradman. That is overrating him. He is still an all time great though.

    Just like can say that a great is underrated. E.g. I sometimes think McGrath is underrated (maybe not on here). I believe he is so clearly in the top 10 best cricketers of all time, that anyone who doesn't think that is underrating him.

    The colloquial use of overrated/underrated has basically become "I think he's actually ****" or "i think he's actually good"
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  4. #34
    International Vice-Captain kyear2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono View Post
    Its amazing that people never understand this.

    I agree that Tendulkar is overrated in the strictest definition - i.e. that some think he is a guaranteed #2 of all time or even better than Bradman. That is overrating him. He is still an all time great though.

    Just like can say that a great is underrated. E.g. I sometimes think McGrath is underrated (maybe not on here). I believe he is so clearly in the top 10 best cricketers of all time, that anyone who doesn't think that is underrating him.

    The colloquial use of overrated/underrated has basically become "I think he's actually ****" or "i think he's actually good"
    Nice post.
    Aus. XI
    Simpson^ | Hayden | Bradman | Chappell^ | Ponting | Border* | Gilchrist+ | Davidson3 | Warne4^ | Lillee1 | McGrath2


    W.I. XI
    Greenidge | Hunte | Richards^ | Headley* | Lara^ | Sobers5^ | Walcott+ | Marshall1 | Ambrose2 | Holding3 | Garner4

    S.A. XI
    Richards^ | Smith*^ | Amla | Pollock | Kallis5^ | Nourse | Cameron+ | Procter3 | Steyn1 | Tayfield4 | Donald2

    Eng. XI
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  5. #35
    International Captain watson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyear2 View Post
    Akran is a funny case, if Cricinfo was c alling him the third best fast bowler or best bowling All Rounder then he was over rated, but from reading an interview afterwards, that was probably not the case "There's no point picking four new-ball bowlers if only two can share it", it's possible Akran was selected as he was a wizard with the old ball and would also provide variety with his LH fast bowling and also provide some extra footmarks for Warne and Sobers. In that scenario he isn't over rated but part of a great attack.
    Just my take.
    Good point kyear.

    Akram as a change bowler to the likes of Marshall & Lillee seems fair enough to me as someone has to clean up the tail. And he was certainly good at doing that.
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    International Captain watson's Avatar
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    Anil Kumble is over-rated as his greatness relies too heavily on longevity and success on home turf. Chandra and Prasanna are comfortably better and greater Indian spinners IMO.

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    International Vice-Captain kyear2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by watson View Post
    Anil Kumble is over-rated as his greatness relies too heavily on longevity and success on home turf. Chandra and Prasanna are comfortably better and greater Indian spinners IMO.
    Fully agree.

  8. #38
    Virat Kohli (c) Jono's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by watson View Post
    Anil Kumble is over-rated as his greatness relies too heavily on longevity and success on home turf. Chandra and Prasanna are comfortably better and greater Indian spinners IMO.
    So if people have Kumble in the same pack as them you believe he is overrated, as you think he's clearly below them?

    Interesting viewpoint. Don't mind it, even if I disagree.

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    No one rates him.
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    International Captain watson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono View Post
    So if people have Kumble in the same pack as them you believe he is overrated, as you think he's clearly below them?

    Interesting viewpoint. Don't mind it, even if I disagree.
    Yes, Kumble is clearly 'below' Chandra and Prasanna IMO. And possibly Bedi.

    The main reason being that Chandra and Prasanna both had successful overseas tours. Chandra dominated the 1971 series in England against Illingsworth's team, and Prasanna was the outstanding bowler during the 1967/68 series in Australia. There is nothing similar in Kumble's CV that I can find. Although I'm happy to be corrected.

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    International Debutant the big bambino's Avatar
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    Our squad recently dusted 4 blot are collectively the worst to go to the sub con.

    From the sub con,,,hmmm. Using jono's definition that you can be great and over rated, I nominate Gavaskar for the supermanning of his record v WI.

  13. #43
    International Captain watson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the big bambino View Post
    Our squad recently dusted 4 blot are collectively the worst to go to the sub con.

    From the sub con,,,hmmm. Using jono's definition that you can be great and over rated, I nominate Gavaskar for the supermanning of his record v WI.
    Yeah, that's a tricky one with good arguments from both sides.

    Just checked on Statsguru. Gavaskar and Michael Holding played against eachother in 15 Test matches (1976-1983). Gavaskar scored 1135 runs at 45.40 with 5 centuries during those Test matches.

    To my mind that isn't bad. My only real criticism is that Gavaskar seemed to be inconsistent - he either scored not much, or very big. But could Hobbs and Hutton have done any better in the same circumstances? Probably not as I can't imagine an opening batsman with a straighter defensive bat, and a better hook/pull-shot. Then there was that cover-drive down on one knee.....

  14. #44
    Cricket Web Staff Member Howe_zat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by watson View Post
    Yeah, that's a tricky one with good arguments from both sides.

    Just checked on Statsguru. Gavaskar and Michael Holding played against eachother in 15 Test matches (1976-1983). Gavaskar scored 1135 runs at 45.40 with 5 centuries during those Test matches.

    To my mind that isn't bad. My only real criticism is that Gavaskar seemed to be inconsistent - he either scored not much, or very big. But could Hobbs and Hutton have done any better in the same circumstances? Probably not as I can't imagine an opening batsman with a straighter defensive bat, and a better hook/pull-shot. Then there was that cover-drive down on one knee.....
    Gavaskar's record against the Windies is often cited as evidence of him conquering their best ever (probably the best ever) pace battery, but it's actually quite misleading because of how often he scored against them either before that pace attack came through or when they were at WSC.

    Edit: story given in detail here
    Last edited by Howe_zat; 10-06-2013 at 10:51 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Howe_zat View Post
    Gavaskar's record against the Windies is often cited as evidence of him conquering their best ever (probably the best ever) pace battery, but it's actually quite misleading because of how often he scored against them either before that pace attack came through or when they were at WSC.

    Edit: story given in detail here
    I would have to question the quality of the article. I think that it's exaggerating its main point and being overly picky;

    According to Statsguru;

    Holding AND Roberts V Gavaskar
    Tests = 9 (1976-83, 7 in the WI)
    Ave = 53.07
    100s = 3
    Runs = 690

    Holding AND Marshall V Gavaskar
    Test = 11 (1983, 5 in the WI)
    Ave = 41.38
    100s = 3
    Runs = 745

    Holding AND Roberts AND Marshall V Gavaskar
    Tests = 7 (1983, 5 in the WI)
    Ave = 49.60
    100s = 2
    Runs = 496
    Last edited by watson; 11-06-2013 at 12:30 AM.

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