**Official** New Zealand Domestic Season 2013/2014

[Flem274*]

NZC don't shoot for the stars at all; they shoot their own feet. While the underlying message of my original post was go for it, in the post I slammed (and have slammed in the past) the cherry picking of talent. I have always been against giving the best resources to a few Chosen Ones and telling the rest to **** off. That attitude gets sports into the exact position cricket is in today.

I actually wouldn't bother with a long term goal at all for this team, just a long term dream which is domination. There would be one goal and it would be very short term: win the next test. If you end up in a position where you can't win or don't need to risk a loss to go for the win, draw the test. Achieve that goal every single time and we will get somewhere.

Milne averaging 32-33 would be a disappointment. His long term dream should be to be the best bowler in the world and I'm sure Bond is stoking that fire. His goals will be to establish himself in international cricket and contribute to New Zealand test wins.

Kids registrations being affected by 45 all out is a really long bow to draw. Kids sign up because Mum and Dad tell them to get the **** out of the house and take them down to the local cricket club. McCullum batted first not because of any star shooting but because he lives in a world where rights to aggression is a thing. I don't understand your criticism of trying to pick the best possible bowling combination either because if bowlers aren't being selected to win tests then why are they there at all? You may as well pick eleven batsmen.

I did not and will never say positive fluffy thinking alone will get us anywhere. I have always said the opposite. Dreaming without application leads to standing still. Critical self examination and improvement coupled with a deep slow burning passion to be the best is what you need to be successful, and both of those things are discouraged by the culture of mediocrity which sees nothing wrong with averaging 30 with bat or ball.

Every batsman and every bowler should aim to be an all time great. No exceptions. Not everyone will achieve this, in fact very few will, but 100% of people who don't try fail.

The fact is New Zealand has a lot of issues which can be fixed by doing the work and the excuses given don't stack up to any kind of scrutiny.

 

[Flem274*]

If I ever get bored I might retype the original rant so it's actually coherent criticism. It sounds like a lot of people are misinterpreting the post and that's my fault.

 

[Hurricane]

I could only find one strategy document when I spent 5 seconds googling it is from 2007 it is called pushing the boundaries.

We will know that we have succeeded
by 2011 if:
The BLACKCAPS and White Ferns
are sustainably number one or two
in the world and regularly win world
tournaments and series

There is no doubt in my mind that we will have a similar goal for 2018. So NZC does shoot for the stars. This sort of goal setting is at best unrealistic and at worst damaging to the game in New Zealand through the selection of high risk strategies to get us to the promised land.

I personally will be thrilled if Milne takes 200 wickets at an average of 31-32 in his career. Very few bowlers achieve the 20s. What is he averaging in Plunket anyway 27-28. Maybe if he averages like 18 this year for a full season you can let yourself believe he will average 22-24 in tests.

Kids play because they want to be like the blackcaps on TV. When they win more kids sign up if you don't accept that then I will move on to a different conversation. I don't know if is true or not but I heard a rumour there is no third form team this year at my local high school which has 1500 students. Instead there is a junior team for forms 3-5 of mixed abilities that sends warning bells to me. Also in the last 5 years I have gone from being in my clubs 5th team to being in the 3rd team primarily because two teams have dissapeared above me. Participation levels are not doing well at all levels and this is linked to the poor showing of the national team although it is not the only cause.

 

[Flem274*]

Well then we may as well pack up and go home. Why play if being number one isn't your goal?

If Milne takes 200 at 32 I'll say "yeah he did okay, but man he looked so much better than that." I certainly won't be thrilled. Mediocrity doesn't thrill me.

Big goals don't damage the game at all. Settling and the general poor planning and culture do. Number one is the goal of every test side. NZC do have a history of trying to take shortcuts to number one though, the most recent being Sodhi. The goal was never the issue; the problem was NZC really couldn't be bothered to do the hard work with Sodhi and develop him (and all our other young spinners for that matter - why should Sodhi get a pedestal when he hasn't earned it yet?) and instead threw him at a perceived weak opponent hoping for the 1% chance it would work to fall in their favour, and it didn't.

Honestly, if NZC ever put in their plan "we want to be 4th" I'll stop watching.

EDIT: how did they plan to reach number one in four years when we were so far down the rankings? That **** takes time man. You could be the unofficial number one because you didn't have the chance to tidy up a few series, but the official rankings take ages if you're low down.

 

[Mike5181]

I struggle to see how Sodhi's experience over in the sub-continent was anything but a positive for both the player, and NZ cricket as a whole tbh.

 

[hendrix]

I personally will be thrilled if Milne takes 200 wickets at an average of 31-32 in his career. Very few bowlers achieve the 20s. What is he averaging in Plunket anyway 27-28. Maybe if he averages like 18 this year for a full season you can let yourself believe he will average 22-24 in tests.

averages I don't really care about. There are bowlers like Anderson and Southee who are worth so much more than their averages it's ridiculous.

But do take the example of Vernon Philander and the South African pace battery to see the difference one bowler can make to the rest of the attack.

 

[hendrix]

Also, please point me out if I'm wrong here, but how long has it been since the NZ opening bowlers have been this consistently good over a period of nearly 2 years? How long has it been since we could say that we have a genuine batsman averaging over 40? (and no, Fleming doesn't count). Richardson, right?

What did we get up to, number 2 in the rankings when we had these things?

This is not being overly optimistic, this is just plain reality. We have excellent bowlers and there's enough batting talent there to put up big scores. Get some ****ing balls, score some runs, take your catches and bowl the opposition out. Barring SA and England, noone in world cricket is consistent. There's a massive gap there just begging to be taken.

They are good, we should expect that they perform.

 

[Flem274*]

We now know he can get smashed with the occassional burst of good by one of the few teams ranked lower than us. I don't really see how that's a positive, or how we couldn't already guess it.

It was great to see him playing A cricket against good players of spin in their home conditions, but that's where he should stay. He was never going to be good enough right now for tests and the rationale behind his selection to my eyes was hope and prayer. It was a shortcut, and one we're now committed to seeing through and I hope it works for Sodhi's sake, but spinners who average 50+ in NZ FC don't have a great reputation for immediate international success.

 

[Flem274*]

Fleming counts Hendo. Averaged 45 or so in the 00s.

 

[hendrix]

Fleming counts Hendo. Averaged 45 or so in the 00s.

OK, well when he was averaging 45 and we had, as you mentioned, Franklin and Martin, we were doing all right.

Even you with your screen name will recognise that Taylor is at least as quality as Fleming, if not significantly better (helps that Flem batted out of position his whole career, whereas Taylor is in the right spot at 4)...and then there's the issue of Franklin and Martin vs Southee and Boult...which is basically not a contest.

Missing Richardson, but you'd have to be a **** to not be hoping that Williamson doesn't also average >40. Again, taking Aus as the benchmark, they have Clarke and Warner.

I'm totally with you on this one Flem. Those ****s have to perform. They're good. They're very good. They've bowled out good batsmen and scored runs against good bowlers. We have to expect that they perform.

 

[Flem274*]

I think Taylor is our best since Crowe. Had that debate with Bahnz and PEWS in the Bangladesh thread.

Speaking of which Bahnicles I was rereading the Taylor sacking thread because it's about 12 months on and I found the original darlingface insult. When you crawl to 25,000 posts in the year 3000 that has to be your custom title.

 

[Flem274*]

Anyway, I wouldn't want to be setting Aussie as the benchmark for once because they're like a slightly better but still messy us at the moment. It's hard to tell which bowlers will win the fight for 3-4 spots long term (injuries, random form drops, some domestic bloke like Henry getting a chance and gunning it) but competition either kills or makes players so hopefully the scrap should keep the records looking good. The batsmen don't really have the same pressure so their motivation is all personal, but I'm not a fan in general of the "getting our averages over 40 because that's world class" talk. Obviously I want them over 40 but in the era just gone 50 was world class. It looks like batting averages are coming down again but as I said before, everyone should strive to be an all time great. It's ridiculously hard to reach that level an I'll jizz if they do but if they strive for it then a few of these guys have it in them to be really really good players.

 

[hendrix]

yeah, well we're obviously preaching to each other's choir on this one. I'm under no illusions that S&B are the best bowlers in the world or anything like that, but again I'll use the example of England and point to where you can get with some professionalism and the right attitude.

 

[Bahnz]

Speaking of which Bahnicles I was rereading the Taylor sacking thread because it's about 12 months on and I found the original darlingface insult. When you crawl to 25,000 posts in the year 3000 that has to be your custom title.

Yeah, well...it's still better than the other "d...face" insult that I get called on a regular basis.

Loved Jesse's reaction to his 2nd innings dismissal. Just stood and glared at the umpire for about 10 seconds before slowly walking off. I don't think he was too happy.

 

[Kippax]

Cricket | Canterbury Strong Despite Lack of Imports... | Stuff.co.nz

Canterbury Wizards: Peter Fulton (c), Todd Astle, Hamish Bennett, Dean Brownlie, Brad Cachopa, Andrew Ellis, Matt Henry, Ronnie Hira, Simon Keen, Rob Nicol, Logan van Beek, George Worker.

Central Districts: Jamie How, Peter Trego, Carl Cachopa, Will Young, Kieran Noema-Barnett (c), Kruger van Wyk, Ben Smith, Doug Bracewell, Marty Kain, Tarun Nethula, Ben Wheeler, Andrew Mathieson.

Left-arm quick Ryan McCone will miss the start of the season after breaking his thumb at training this week.

Fulton's side features seven players with international experience and a host of batting options.

The side's imports in the last few seasons have all been bowlers so it's with a steady batting lineup that the Wizards begin their T20 campaign.

And they're in form too.

Rob Nicol scored a big hundred in a warmup inter-squad game at the weekend while Ronnie Hira has been somewhat of a surprise package with the bat.

"He's a bit unorthodox and he can hit it in a few funny places," Fulton said.

"He has a habit of finding a way to get it up and over the fielders. Saying that, he's always had the ability to hit a pretty big ball, he just hasn't always had the opportunity."

Hira is likely to find himself floating in the Wizards' line-up and will be one of several of the side's closing options alongside Andrew Ellis and new Wizard Simon Keen.

There's plenty of competition at the top of the order too.

George Worker will open with Nicol while Fulton will be pencilled in at first drop in what is likely to become a fluid middle-order.

McCone would have been in the 12 had he not been injured when a ball was whacked back at him at training, but there are still plenty of bowling options for Fulton to turn to.

Hamish Bennett and Matt Henry will take care of the quick bowling while Ellis, Keen and Logan van Beek are capable of bowling valuable overs.

Hira, Todd Astle, Nicol and Worker are all spin options.

"I think when you go in with no imports there's probably a perception that you're going to have a weak team, but that's not really the case with us this year I think," Fulton said.

Both games will be played at Hagley Oval and begin at 7.10pm.

 

[Kippax]

.

Auckland have won the toss and are bowling first. Overcast. Jono Boult 12th man for us, Singh for them.

 

[Kippax]

Ferguson also missing out for Auckland there.

 

[Bahnz]

Not the best start to the season for Flynn.

 

[Kippax]

Doesn't sound good for Butler, back scans -

http://www.odt.co.nz/sport/cricket/279168/cricket-otago-plays-safe-ensure-draw

Wonder if Ellis might come in to that SL squad as captain.

 

[Flem274*]

Ouch, out to Matt Quinn on what must be debut.

Not liking Auckland's balance here. I would have preffered another batsman in place of Grobbelaar, but he could be in good nick for all I know so I'll wait and see. Not the scariest ND bowling attack ever fielded anyway, even if it does have Dan.

Awesome to see ND debuting some new batsmen. About time and both these blokes score big tons in the Hawke Cup regularly.