**Official** New Zealand Domestic Season 2013/2014

[Bahnz]

Oh good, so he'll become Anil Kumble - capable of taking buckets of wickets on dusty death bowls with medium pacers that occasionally nibble, but absolutely ineffective in any other condition. Might as well tell his family to emigrate back to India as he's becoming a perfect bowler for their conditions.

Um, Kumble still took 200 wickets at about 35 outside the sub-continent. I wouldn't call that "absolutely ineffective", and if Sodhi ever becomes good enough to post anything like those kinds of numbers he'd be of enormous benefit to the team.

 

[Blocky]

Um, Kumble still took 200 wickets at about 35 outside the sub-continent. I wouldn't call that "absolutely ineffective", and if Sodhi ever becomes good enough to post anything like those kinds of numbers he'd be of enormous benefit to the team.

I dare say 35 wickets at this stage would be a "great contribution" from Sodhi considering his poor domestic form and the fact that most sides don't struggle against spin bowling the way our sides do.

 

[Bahnz]

Not even sure what you're trying to say now. Regardless, I'm not sure how good Sodhi is going to become, but I'm prrpared to bet that if he's managed right he'll be better than any other spinner currently playing professional cricket in New Zealand.

 

[Kippax]

Excellent home results + a receptive relationship with Eddie Punch-clock and Veitchy Talkback + a very vibrant and highly-tendered international TV rights market. Blocky knows his agribusiness there, itbt.

Those dreary SC and WI tours, cheap and nasty production values, that's a much harder and less practical nut to crack.

 

[Blocky]

Not even sure what you're trying to say now. Regardless, I'm not sure how good Sodhi is going to become, but I'm prrpared to bet that if he's managed right he'll be better than any other spinner currently playing professional cricket in New Zealand.

Yet, in comparison against Williamson at similar points in their career, Williamson had taken more wickets at a much lower average and has continued to be more effective in domestic cricket. I think within two to four years, if Mitchell Santner hasn't overtaken him as ND's first choice spinning all rounder, then Josef Walker will take his place as first choice spinner.

 

[Bahnz]

Not a much lower average. After his first 2 seasons of Plunket shield cricket Williamson had 29 wickets at 41. He hasn't yet finished his second season yet, but Sodhi has 28 wickets at 43. And yeah it's not great, but it's vastly superior than other recent u19 spinners like Nick Beard and Tim Johnston, it's also not terrible by general domestic standards. Jeetan Patel has performed similarly over the same period, as has Todd Astle.

For the record, KW is obviously a vastly superior spinner to Sodhi ATM, and if he hadn't had to focus on his batting I think he probably could've developed into a better spin bowler than Sodhi will ever be.

 

[hendrix]

I'd want to test KW and Nick Beard's actions before I'd even consider them for national selection (if KW was a specialist spinner).

 

[Blocky]

Not a much lower average. After his first 2 seasons of Plunket shield cricket Williamson had 29 wickets at 41. He hasn't yet finished his second season yet, but Sodhi has 28 wickets at 43. And yeah it's not great, but it's vastly superior than other recent u19 spinners like Nick Beard and Tim Johnston, it's also not terrible by general domestic standards. Jeetan Patel has performed similarly over the same period, as has Todd Astle.

For the record, KW is obviously a vastly superior spinner to Sodhi ATM, and if he hadn't had to focus on his batting I think he probably could've developed into a better spin bowler than Sodhi will ever be.

Sodhi will not take as many test wickets as Kane Williamson. Nick Beard struggles to get a game for Otago. Jeetan Patel is a failed prospect, Todd Astle is another "OMG WE HAVE A LEGSPINNER" selection that should never have made NZ and will be a better batsman than spin bowler for Canterbury. I think we're all in violent agreement that Sodhi has no business being anywhere near NZ selection so I won't harp on this point further, but I don't see anything different out of Sodhi that I haven't seen out of a dozen leg spinners, except for the fact that Sodhi can bat a bit.

ND have this horrible policy of selecting really bad spin bowlers who bat a bit. Keir Bettley, Jono Boult (who performs better at domestic than Sodhi) come to mind as recent selections. Since Bruce Martin left the province, and Vettori stopped playing, Williamson has been their best spinbowler by a country mile.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

So, what other drums do you have to beat, Blocky?

We've already got

1. Guptill hate
2. Sodhi abuse
3. Wagner the top order destroyer

Can you give us any idea of what other topics we should expect to be beaten over the head repeatedly over in the forthcoming months and years? I'd like time to make adequate mental preparation.

 

[Blocky]

So, what other drums do you have to beat, Blocky?

We've already got

1. Guptill hate
2. Sodhi abuse
3. Wagner the top order destroyer

Can you give us any idea of what other topics we should expect to be beaten over the head repeatedly over in the forthcoming months and years? I'd like time to make adequate mental preparation.

Yes, because it's completely unreasonable to want..

1. A batsman who can score more than once every five innings and who doesn't entirely slow down the entire team at the start of the innings when he doesn't come off
2. A bowler to actually have to perform domestically before getting a chance in our test unit
3. A bowler who has performed progressively better since his debut in tests with a great domestic backstory behind him to be given a fair chance at establishing himself as our third seamer.

Yeah, I must be completely mad to beat those drums.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

Haha. I don't necessarily disagree with you on the topics per se, but every time I open this thread or the NZ vs. India one at the moment, the same 3 arguments are being recycled. I get your position, I think everyone gets your position on those three topics.

 

[Blocky]

Haha. I don't necessarily disagree with you on the topics per se, but every time I open this thread or the NZ vs. India one at the moment, the same 3 arguments are being recycled. I get your position, I think everyone gets your position on those three topics.

Generally because someone other than I tries to bring up one of the points in relationship to something else - i.e the Guptill statistics issue which seems to be used in every single piece of conversation if someone disagrees with my opinion. Fortunately a few wilting daisies have placed me on ignore, two who seem to be most likely to bring up old ground and expect the argument to go any differently.

 

[ohnoitsyou]

Hey im still here

 

[hendrix]

no, it's because you don't understand where the topic of conversation is heading.

I.e. "Wagner's performance is going to be critical in this series and he needs to do better than what he's done in his career, because otherwise he's a major weak link"

and then you start talking about how good Wagner is. I.e. not the topic at hand.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

Haha. I don't necessarily disagree with you on the topics per se, but every time I open this thread or the NZ vs. India one at the moment, the same 3 arguments are being recycled. I get your position, I think everyone gets your position on those three topics.

Good thing i don't post more cos this is pretty much me in a nutshell

The thing I really don't like about sodhi is his action. I'm impressed he's got as far as FC level with a bowling action that maximises none of his athletic potential. He's never going to turn his leg-break consistently the way he bowls currently and it's probably too late to seriously change it. That video kipp posted of some Aussie 12 year old - now that's how you bowl a leggie. It's got the load-up, the pivot, and the rip.

I still hope he continues to improve and build on the recent 5-for as with any young bowler. He shouldn't get extra credit and attention just because of the fact that he bowls slowly and turns the ball a certain direction though.

 

[Flem274*]

Yeah I said at the time Sodhi was picked on a prayer and a good word from the second most one eyed domestic coach in the country (all the Indian journos thought Astle bowled the best of the two), but now we've picked him he needs a good run because the one thing more dire than selectorial parochialism is picking on potential, getting cold feet and turfing a bloke after a handful of games.

McHesson are pretty happy to pluck the player they want from the crop and **** results (Sodhi, Anderson to an extent, Devcich, Milne, Neesham's test squad call up) so chances are he will get a long crack.

 

[Mike5181]

Yeah I said at the time Sodhi was picked on a prayer and a good word from the second most one eyed domestic coach in the country (all the Indian journos thought Astle bowled the best of the two), but now we've picked him he needs a good run because the one thing more dire than selectorial parochialism is picking on potential, getting cold feet and turfing a bloke after a handful of games.

McHesson are pretty happy to pluck the player they want from the crop and **** results (Sodhi, Anderson to an extent, Devcich, Milne, Neesham's test squad call up) so chances are he will get a long crack.

Astle averaged nearly 60 with the ball the season before that A tour, and Sodhi averaged 44 at 19/20 years of age. He didn't get shafted, he just legitimately hadn't done enough.

 

[Hurricane]

I think Sodhi will turn out to be decent with an FC average around 35 but he will not be the next Danesh Kaneria. I think he will get better than he is right now. Presently he is easily flustered by boundaries and is a confidence bowler. With more time on any professional stage he will get better. I just don't predict his accuracy will ever be consistent enough for him to dominate.

I would play him against India because you need a spinner for over rates if for nothing else. And replacing him with a seamer would give us 5 seamers and we will never get through our ninety unless Kane bowls a **** load and Anderson and the 4th seamer don't bowl that much. He (Ish) appears to be the best spinner in the country so the job goes to him.

edit - sorry if this is not a domestic post - I am just following the theme of discussion and the two threads have become blurred to me.

 

[Flem274*]

Astle averaged nearly 60 with the ball the season before that A tour, and Sodhi averaged 44 at 19/20 years of age. He didn't get shafted, he just legitimately hadn't done enough.

neither has sodhi, or anyone really. but those two were on tour so it was going to be between them and bartin. bradburn got his boys (sodhi, anderson, devcich) in contention and only one had a case to be in bangladesh.

 

[Bahnz]

The thing I really don't like about sodhi is his action. I'm impressed he's got as far as FC level with a bowling action that maximises none of his athletic potential. He's never going to turn his leg-break consistently the way he bowls currently and it's probably too late to seriously change it. That video kipp posted of some Aussie 12 year old - now that's how you bowl a leggie. It's got the load-up, the pivot, and the rip.

Yeah, Sodhi's action is pretty weak, and I can't imagine he could look to put more work into it without even further reducing his accuracy.

Disagree with those who say that Sodhi has to be persisted with. He's already had 5 tests against two of the weakest batting lineups in test cricket and he clearly hasn't made the grade. Bowling 7 overs and getting 0/51 will be of no benefit to him whatsoever.