Entertaining cricket vs Good cricket

[Jono]

There were, what, four and a half sessions left? Yes it rained and we knew it was going to but you don't declare on the forecast, not when you have all to lose and little to gain. Sure once we got to 400 you are getting in the realms of absurd as NZ weren't going to pull of a world record chase, but what was to be gained by leaving even the slightest of risks?

A test victory and ranking points, with barely a smidgen of a chance of a loss.

I defended Dravid in his slow batting and defensive captaincy back at The Oval in 2007 vs. England. But for me context is everything. The series victory of 1-0 then was gigantic for India over England. If we're being honest, there has barely been any joy that England have beaten NZ, and it would have been even more meh if it was 1-0. England now are better than India back in 2007. They are not only looking to win series, but test matches and ranking points too.

And even if you think 400 was not necessarily when they should have declared. Surely 430? Why all the way to 468?

 

[Biryani Pillow]

An observation on the frequent moaning about not having a 3rd man.

Most of this is done by Botham and Holding.

I saw most of the Test career of the former and a reasonable amount of the latter.

They very rarely had a 3rd man when they were bowling - and I remember reading Mike Brearley saying that Botham often vehemently opposed any suggestion that he might need one.

Recently I was watching highlights from the 1981 Ashes and heard Mr Benaud observe "3rd man is a fielding position that appears to have gone out of fashion." In 40 years of watching the game I can't recall a time when it was in fashion.

I'm not a great fan of Hussain's commentary but he made a point a couple of years back that the difference between the pundits choice of decleration time and the on field captain is 45 minutes to an hour. I suspect it always has been. It's a damn sight easier in the commentary box, or in an internet forum, than on the field.

 

[uvelocity]

you need the balls to risk losing in order to dominate

 

[Top_Cat]

Can't remember any particularly courageous declarations from Taylor or Waugh, though. Some might look at the occasional Taylor declaration and making the other side chase 'only' 300-odd or 280 or something but back then, it was unheard of for teams to get close to a 4th innings chase like that. By the standards of the time, they were relatively safe.

 

[Uppercut]

Didn't AB set England 400 in 50 overs rather than go for a whitewash? Or am I making that up.

 

[Burgey]

Didn't AB set England 400 in 50 overs rather than go for a whitewash? Or am I making that up.

Probably.

AB declared twice in the Chennai Tied Test and nearly lost. It really clouded his thinking from then on. They used to say he only declared at customs.

He also used to really, really enjoy grinding sides into the dirt. In 93, when he and Waugh were not out at the end of day two with well over 500 on the board, he came into the sheds and said wtte "We are batting on tomorrow to inflict maximum physical and psychological pain on the opposition". They ended up making 4-650 odd.

**** I love that man.

 

[Furball]

Was that the 'Waugh fails' Test where he was out for 99?

 

[BoyBrumby]

Can't remember any particularly courageous declarations from Taylor or Waugh, though. Some might look at the occasional Taylor declaration and making the other side chase 'only' 300-odd or 280 or something but back then, it was unheard of for teams to get close to a 4th innings chase like that. By the standards of the time, they were relatively safe.

Was going to say Headingley in 2001 looks generous in retrospect but didn't seem it at the time, but then remembered SRW had twanged his hammy & I think Gilly was skipper.

 

[GIMH]

Yeah that's right

 

[Top_Cat]

Yeah, that one not generous in my view (and it was Gilly who made the call, you're right). I watched most of the knock and Butcher played out of his skin against a brilliant bowling attack, in-form Falls short of being a freak result but 8/10, you'd back McGrath/Gillespie/Lee/Warne to make 300-odd in the 4th a dig a very, very difficult chase.

Mark Butcher 173 - YouTube

Check out some of the shots once he got past 50. Lara-esque.

 

[Burgey]

Was that the 'Waugh fails' Test where he was out for 99?

Same tour, but the test in question was at Headingly.