Do Over

[Goughy]

There are countless players who didn't fulfill the expectations we had. It could be for any number of reasons.

Who would you back to succeed now after they had a less than illustrious playing career? Lots to choose from but try and limit it to one otherwise we will be listing all SA crickets from the 70s and 80s, 2nd string WI quicks from the glory days and Aus batsman from the 90s.

I'll go for Hick. Despite his failings, he was still a genius. I'd back him to score stacks today.

Anyone know of quality cricketers who played before their nation got Test status?

 

[Burgey]

Dave Houghton springs to mind. Didn't he score a poultice of FC runs before he played a few tests when past his prime.

 

[Coronis]

Honestly, would have to pick Procter. First class stats are incredible. 401 matches, 1417 wickets @ 19.53, 21936 runs @ 36.01. 48 centuries, 6 in successive innings. 70 5 fors. Would've easily been considered the greatest all rounder if he had a full career.

 

[fredfertang]

Frank Hayes abject failure after his debut century was a great disappointment to me - he was a superb batsman when he was on song, and very unlucky to play all his 9 Tests against the WIndies - if he'd got a gig against India and Pakistan in '74 it might all have been so different

 

[Top_Cat]

Boofers would have been picked much earlier than 28 years of age had he been in the running for a Test spot now so I'd back him to average 50+ in Tests*.

*except against the current Saffers not named Philander.

 

[Goughy]

Boofers would have been picked much earlier than 28 years of age had he been in the running for a Test spot now so I'd back him to average 50+ in Tests*.

*except against the current Saffers not named Philander.

Both close to honourary Yorkshireman status if such a thing could be conferred rather than being a birthright, but you rate Boof a lot higher than Bevan? I always thought Bevan's failings against Gough et al and the short ball was a convenient excuse to get rid of him as there was a long talented line behind him. I'd back Bevan to score runs today.

 

[Top_Cat]

Bevvo's failing against the short ones definitely over-stated but what doesn't get a lot of press is his play outside off, was a fairly meh leaver of the ball and with so many good quicks and juicy decks around today, dunno. Lehmann actually not great shakes against short quick stuff so maybe that'd bring his average down a few points.

When Bev was playing here, he and Lehmann were considered roughly equal in ability so maybe there wouldn't have been too much between them, hard to say and depends on when you take them (late-career Bevvo would have done well in Tests I think). I don't remember many saying either was significantly better. Hookesy hitched his wagon to Boof but I remember Hilditch was a Bevan fan.

 

[Prince EWS]

Both close to honourary Yorkshireman status if such a thing could be conferred rather than being a birthright, but you rate Boof a lot higher than Bevan? I always thought Bevan's failings against Gough et al and the short ball was a convenient excuse to get rid of him as there was a long talented line behind him. I'd back Bevan to score runs today.

Yeah Bevan was my first thought when I read the OP.

Lehmann didn't play as many Tests as he perhaps could have, or would have in another era, but I'm sure he'll look back on his Test career and declare it a success - 27 Tests, batting of 45, five tons and a cheeky 15 wickets at 27. No-one will complain too much about that.

Bevan's the one who really didn't do himself justice at all. IMO actually a much better batsman than Lehmann, he never scored a Test hundred and averaged less then 30. Given he has an absolutely absurd record in Sheffield Shield cricket (10,000+ runs @ 60) during an era that many Shield attacks rivalled Test attacks, all despite the fact that he was probably actually more suited as a batsman to away than home conditions, his Test career was a massive anomaly. Not only do I think he'd forge a good Test career if he could start again as such, but I think he could be one of the best in the world, as he proved to be in ODI cricket.

As Coronis pointed out, the more obvious picks are players who didn't have much a Test career for reasons other than failure - Procter, Barry Richards, Le Roux, van der Bilj, Dempster, Jackson etc - but I think Bevan fits the spirit of the thread like no other.

 

[Top_Cat]

Come on, get serious. You can make a case for Bevvo being equal or slightly better depending on how much you rate play against the quicks but much better? Kidding yourself. Literally the only person I've ever seen say that comparing those two. I mean, it's not as if Bev had one bad series which wrecked him, he was given plenty of chances over the course of several years. He'd have scored more runs now, sure, but he had technical problems outside off which would have limited him no matter the era.

 

[Goughy]

Come, get serious. You can make a case for Bevvo being equal or slightly better depending on how much you rate play against the quicks but much better? Kidding yourself. Literally the only person I've ever seen say that about those two.

Both would be mainstays of the current Aus team?

 

[Top_Cat]

Both would be mainstays of the current Aus team?

No doubt.

 

[Goughy]

No doubt.

Who would you choose if there was one space open?

 

[Top_Cat]

Lehmann but I'm biased. He'd also add a lot more to the team's leadership than you'd lose in the field compared to Bevan.

Worth pointing out, I'm more referring to the Lehmann of his early 20's when he was a more attacking player and his play was less leg-side oriented. When he reigned in his shots and was finally picked for the Test side, I don't think he was as good a player. More versatile, yes, but early days he was like Ganguly from mid-off to point.

 

[wpdavid]

I think Woolmer would have captained England for a long time if he hadn't signed up for WSC. Already 3 ashes tons to his name, a fixture in the side with a couple of easy summers in 1978 & 1979 to come and smart enough to get the post once Brearley retired. Instead, he only played a handful of tests after WSC, never got going again and was unceremoniously dumped. His subsequent 3 year ban for going on Gooch's "rebel" tour to SA was probably irrelevant.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Hmm, Lehmann or a ****?

 

[wpdavid]

Frank Hayes abject failure after his debut century was a great disappointment to me - he was a superb batsman when he was on song, and very unlucky to play all his 9 Tests against the WIndies - if he'd got a gig against India and Pakistan in '74 it might all have been so different

They'd have probably dumped him for not coping against Lillee & Thomson the following winter.

Perhaps having Denness take up one of the middle order positions didn't help.

 

[Pothas]

Will always be Ramps for me.

 

[grecian]

Hick may have been better in this time, but genius, you are having a laugh, have no idea why you rate a technically poor player so highly. Leaden footed against proper bowling. Not like he wasn't given masses of chances too.

How can you remotely compare him to many Kiwis who had brilliant records, when they played few matches, Indians who never played, West Indian fast bowlers when they were at their prime, or oz batsmen when there was surfplus. Plus all those Saffies rightly banned.

 

[Red]

Would have loved to have seen Bruce Reid with a body that held up for 70-100 tests. Would have contended for the title of best left arm quick ever, and would be considered to be one of Australia's top 5 quicks of all time.

On a more personal note, I would have loved to see Martin Love play about 100 more tests than he did. Really enjoyed watching him play cricket. He reminded me of Greg Chappell. Tall stance, elegant stroke play and brilliant slip catching.

Other obvious ones are the SAs that missed so much test cricket. Barry Richards, Graeme Pollock and Mike Procter. It's quite possible that they'd have been the greatest opening batsman, the greatest middle order batsman (Bradman aside) and the greatest bowling all-rounder ever. And that's not even hyperbole. Just a fact. Such a shame.

 

[uvelocity]

reckon hidemark00 would nominate magilla