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CW All Time Country XI Discussion Thread

kyear2

Cricketer Of The Year
Cricketweb Australia All Time XI
Victor Trumper
Arthur Morris
Sir Donald Bradman *
Greg Chappell
Allan Border
Keith Miller
Adam Gilchrist +
Shane Warne
Denis Lillee
Bill O'Reilly
Glenn McGrath

Ricky Ponting
Allan Davidson

Cricketweb West Indies All Time XI
Gordon Greenidge
Sir Conrad Hunte
George Headley *
Sir I.V.A. Richards
Brian Lara
Sir Garfield Sobers
Sir Clyde Walcott +
Malcolm Marshall
Michael Holding
Curtly Ambrose
Joel Garner

Frank Worrell
Lance Gibbs

Cricketweb England All Time XI
Sir Jack Hobbs
Sir Len Hutton *
Wally Hammond
Ken Barrington
Denis Compton
Sir Ian Botham
Allan Knott +
Jim Laker
Harold Larwood
Fred Trueman
Syd Barnes

Hedley Verity
Kevin Pietersen

Cricketweb South Africa All Time XI
Barry Richards
Graeme Smith *
Jacques Kallis
Graeme Pollock
Dudley Nourse
Aubrey Faulkner
Mike Procter
John Waite +
Dale Steyn
Hugh Tayfield
Allan Donald

Shaun Pollock
Herbie Taylor

Cricketweb Pakistan All Time XI
Hanif Mohammad
Saeed Anwar
Younis Khan
Javed Miandad
Inzamam-ul-Haq
Mushtaq Mohammad
Imran Khan *
Rashid Latif +
Wasim Akram
Fazal Mahmood
Waqar Younis

Mohammad Yousuf
Saqlain Mushtaq

Cricketweb India All Time XI
Sunil Gavaskar
Vijay Merchant
Rahul Dravid
Sachin Tendulkar
Vijay Hazare
Vinoo Mankad
Farokh Engineer
Kapil Dev
Anil Kumble
Javagal Srinath
Erapalli Prasanna

Mohammad Azharuddin
Amar Singh

Cricketweb Sri Lankan All Time XI
Marvan Atapattu
Sanath Jayasuriya
Kumar Sangakkara
Aravinda de Silva
Mahela Jayawardene *
Thilan Samaraweera
Prasanna Jayawardene +
Chaminda Vaas
Lasith Malinga
Muttiah Muralitharan
Rangana Herath

Arjuna Ranatunga
Ashantha de Mel

Cricketweb New Zealand All Time XI
Glenn Turner
Stewie Dempster
Bert Sutcliffe
Martin Crowe
Martin Donnelly
Brendon McCullum +
John R. Reid
Chris Cairns
Sir Richard Hadlee
Shane Bond
Jack Cowie

Stephen Fleming
Hedley Howarth
 
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Red

The normal awards that everyone else has
I'd have Lindwall in that Australian XI over Davidson.
 

straw man

Hall of Fame Member
Cricketweb New Zealand All Time XI
Glenn Turner
Stewie Dempster
Bert Sutcliffe
Martin Crowe
Martin Donnelley
Brendon McCullum +
John R. Reid
Chris Cairns
Richard Hadlee
Shane Bond
Jack Cowie

Stephen Fleming
Hedley Howarth
To quibble:
*Martin Donnelly
*Sir Richard Hadlee

... and wicketkeeping McCullum circa 2008 or so should be batting below Reid and Cairns (those players seem to be in a different order every time you publish this list :p).
 

kyear2

Cricketer Of The Year
Think we did a good job with all of the teams. In a competition though I think that there would be a clear cut top four. Thoughts?
 

Coronis

Cricketer Of The Year
Think we did a good job with all of the teams. In a competition though I think that there would be a clear cut top four. Thoughts?
Yes, the first 4 teams to enter test cricket still remain the strongest. The saddest thing for me though, is that every team has at least two players within the XI that have played cricket since 2000 (Ambrose just scrapes in). Except England, which only has Botham, who, tbh didn't play well since the early 80's, and the perennially overrated Pieterson in the 13. Would be some excellent matches between those 4 teams though, and any of the others would be very capable of an upset.

Best
Batting: Australia
Bowling: Australia
Fielding: Australia
Overall: Australia

Worst
Batting: New Zealand
Bowling: India
Fielding: Pakistan
Overall: Toughie, not sure on this one.
 

kyear2

Cricketer Of The Year
I actually think that 1-7 that the W.I. actually have the better batting side and also have the best fielding side. Batting wise the Windies have arguably 4 of the top 6 middle order batsmen ever in the middle order, thats awful strong. Australia does have the best bowling, especially if one factors in variety, but it's negligable compared to W.I., South Africa and Pakistan.
 

Coronis

Cricketer Of The Year
I actually think that 1-7 that the W.I. actually have the better batting side and also have the best fielding side. Batting wise the Windies have arguably 4 of the top 6 middle order batsmen ever in the middle order, thats awful strong. Australia does have the best bowling, especially if one factors in variety, but it's negligable compared to W.I., South Africa and Pakistan.
They're very close in batting and fielding, maybe I'm just nationally biased :P Would beat the WI though, with Warne and O'Reilly. Bradman edged the batting for me, and I find I'm rating Richards lower than I used to. Bradman, Chappell, Border, Miller, Gilchrist and Warne are all outstanding fielders.
 
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Red

The normal awards that everyone else has
Sir Jack Hobbs
Sir Len Hutton *
Wally Hammond
Ken Barrington
Denis Compton
Peter May
Sir Ian Botham
Allan Knott +
Harold Larwood/George Lohmann
Fred Trueman
Syd Barnes


I'd leave Laker out of the English side and include an extra batsman. I think Botham can take the role of third seamer comfortably and having him batting at 7 seems better than 6 in this context. Apparently Barnes could bowl seam up and spin, so he covers that element. I'd possibly trade Larwood for Lohmann.

With that change made, I think that it's an even money comp between WIs, Australia, SA and England for me.

FWIW I don't rate the WI's pace bowling any higher than I rate Australia's pace bowling or SA's pace bowling. Assuming these teams would face the opposition on a variety of wickets, I'd expect the WI's to struggle overall on spinning decks, but break even on pacey wickets.

Australia have two distinct advantages. One is being able to play Miller at 5, as he is cushioned by Bradman and Gilchrist's high averages at 3 and 7. This allows the other advantage, which is playing two high class spinners without compromising a three prong pace attack. On the whole the Australian team is a better balanced combination imo. I might be biased here, but I think it is. I'd back them to beat the others comfortably over a long series against any of the other teams, played on a variety of wickets.
 
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kyear2

Cricketer Of The Year
I actually believe that a Australian team of
Trumper
Morris
Bradman
Chappell
Ponting
Border
Gilchrist
Miller
Warne
Lillee
Mcgrath
would be a better option as the two spinners is a bit of over kill and hasn'nt been proven effectiive outside of the sub continent since the advent of covered pitches and Miller in the top 6 in an ATG context is a liability.
 

Slifer

International Captain
top 4 imo:

Oz
WI
Eng
RSA

Oz for obvious reasons but I dont think they would "easily' beat certain teams. For example, in India I expect the 2 leg spinners to be slaughtered and of the remaining bowlers only Mcgrath has ne experience or track record in India. Infact, I think most of the world X1s would be difficult to beat in home conditions. I think its how the teams hypothetically would perform on the road is what matters. And with possible exception of maybe winning in India and the WI, Oz does seem to have the team best equipped to handle most away conditions.
 

Red

The normal awards that everyone else has
I actually believe that a Australian team of
Trumper
Morris
Bradman
Chappell
Ponting
Border
Gilchrist
Miller
Warne
Lillee
Mcgrath

would be a better option as the two spinners is a bit of over kill and hasn'nt been proven effectiive outside of the sub continent since the advent of covered pitches and Miller in the top 6 in an ATG context is a liability.
I reckon part of picking an ATG team is expecting them to play in all conditions in all eras, not just on modern covered wickets. So having O'Reilly and Warne bowling on a sticky or whatever in the olden days is an intimidating thought.

I agree with your team if the venue was the WACA in the 80s, I'd make two changes though.

Trumper - Morris - Bradman - Chappell - Ponting - Harvey - Gilchrist - Lindwall - Warne- Lillee - McGrath
 

watson

Banned
I reckon part of picking an ATG team is expecting them to play in all conditions in all eras, not just on modern covered wickets. So having O'Reilly and Warne bowling on a sticky or whatever in the olden days is an intimidating thought.

I agree with your team if the venue was the WACA in the 80s, I'd make two changes though.

Trumper - Morris - Bradman - Chappell - Ponting - Harvey - Gilchrist - Lindwall - Warne- Lillee - McGrath
I don't think that having O'Reilly and Warne in the same team is a liability on any pitch. Leg-spinners tend to like a bit of extra bounce so O'Reilly and Warne would even do well at the WACA. Also, Viv Richards would like them less than Lillee and McGrath as he was more skilled at playing fast bowling.

In fact, I'm more concerned about how Trumper and Morris would go fending off Marshall/Ambrose/Garner/Holding at the WACA. As a guess I don't think that they'd last very long, although Trumper would fair better than Morris I think. This is because a pair of fast bowlers operating at both ends would be a completely foreign experience, and a far cry from SF Barnes or Alec Bedser.

I know that I bang on a bit about Simpson and Lawry, but they have the second best opening average after Hobbs and Sutcliffe, and they scored plenty of runs against Hall and Griffith, Trueman and Statham. Simpson also scored a lot of runs against spinners and has absolutely no worries against Bedi or any of the Indian twirly-men as his 176 against India at aged 40 indicates.

I want full value and mega-tons from Bradman and G.Chappell, so I don't want them needlessly put under pressure from a shiny hard ball;

Simpson-Lawry-Bradman-G.Chappell-Border-Miller-Gilchrist-Warne-Lillee-O'Reilly-McGrath
 

Red

The normal awards that everyone else has
We probably have slightly differing criteria in our selections. I don't imagine how player x would cope with the pace bowling of player y and z. I know that Morris was the most complete opening batsman of his time, and I know that Trumper was the most complete batsman of his time. In my head I imagine that all the players selected would have the ability to cross eras and not be disadvantaged by the era they played in. As in the old...a champion in one era would be a champion in another idea.

That said, Morris faced some very good bowling in his career, make no mistake about that.

I'm as big a fan as anyone of Simpson and Lawry. But I'd prefer more attacking options in my first XI. They'd open in my second XI, no doubt.
 

watson

Banned
We probably have slightly differing criteria in our selections. I don't imagine how player x would cope with the pace bowling of player y and z. I know that Morris was the most complete opening batsman of his time, and I know that Trumper was the most complete batsman of his time. In my head I imagine that all the players selected would have the ability to cross eras and not be disadvantaged by the era they played in. As in the old...a champion in one era would be a champion in another idea.

That said, Morris faced some very good bowling in his career, make no mistake about that.

I'm as big a fan as anyone of Simpson and Lawry. But I'd prefer more attacking options in my first XI. They'd open in my second XI, no doubt.
Yeah, the answer always relies on the question asked.

So I have different set of preconceived assumptions to you. Fair enough.
 

kyear2

Cricketer Of The Year
I reckon part of picking an ATG team is expecting them to play in all conditions in all eras, not just on modern covered wickets. So having O'Reilly and Warne bowling on a sticky or whatever in the olden days is an intimidating thought.

I agree with your team if the venue was the WACA in the 80s, I'd make two changes though.

Trumper - Morris - Bradman - Chappell - Ponting - Harvey - Gilchrist - Lindwall - Warne- Lillee - McGrath
Agree with the Lindwall over Miller as he was the better bowler, but I know the Miller love that exists on this thread. Harvey over Border is more questionable as Border's tougness is a good foil for the stroke players around him. So.......

Trumper | Morris | Bradman | Chappell | Ponting | Border | Gilchrist | Lindwall | Warne | Lillee | McGrath
 
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kyear2

Cricketer Of The Year
I don't think that having O'Reilly and Warne in the same team is a liability on any pitch. Leg-spinners tend to like a bit of extra bounce so O'Reilly and Warne would even do well at the WACA. Also, Viv Richards would like them less than Lillee and McGrath as he was more skilled at playing fast bowling.

In fact, I'm more concerned about how Trumper and Morris would go fending off Marshall/Ambrose/Garner/Holding at the WACA. As a guess I don't think that they'd last very long, although Trumper would fair better than Morris I think. This is because a pair of fast bowlers operating at both ends would be a completely foreign experience, and a far cry from SF Barnes or Alec Bedser.

I know that I bang on a bit about Simpson and Lawry, but they have the second best opening average after Hobbs and Sutcliffe, and they scored plenty of runs against Hall and Griffith, Trueman and Statham. Simpson also scored a lot of runs against spinners and has absolutely no worries against Bedi or any of the Indian twirly-men as his 176 against India at aged 40 indicates.

I want full value and mega-tons from Bradman and G.Chappell, so I don't want them needlessly put under pressure from a shiny hard ball;

Simpson-Lawry-Bradman-G.Chappell-Border-Miller-Gilchrist-Warne-Lillee-O'Reilly-McGrath
People seem to forget that Headley, Lara, Sobers, Walcott and yes, even IVA were excellent players of spin. Lara scored almost all of his great innings againts Warne and Mcgrath. Headley scored hundreds on uncovered wickets againts Verity, Grimmett and Ironmonger, Viv dominated Underwood and scored hundreds in India vs the quartet. It is a myth the the W.I and in particular this line up was weak againts spin.
 

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