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Thread: How do you rate Allan Lamb?

  1. #16
    Hall of Fame Member Goughy's Avatar
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    Lamb was a decent player who deserved his place in the team. I rate him below Hick but that says more about my opinions on Hick than Lamb
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  2. #17
    Cricketer Of The Year zaremba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lillian Thomson View Post
    He had 7 centuries along side an otherwise poor record. Everyone else had just the poor record.
    Fair enough. He must have been really poor in the innings other than those 7...

    He was a good player, though. Capable of murdering an attack.

  3. #18
    Cricketer Of The Year wpdavid's Avatar
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    He was talented, but he rarely delivered as much as I expected. Obvs his 3 tons against WI in 1984 were the exception, but otherwise I felt he tended to cash in when the going was easy, and/or concentrate properly when his place was under threat.

    I also felt he was given a rather privileged role insofar as when he arrived we had a surplus of middle order batsmen but hardly any openers. So we saw guys like Tavare and Randall open whilst Lamb was allowed to join the side in his usual position. I'm not sure that his returns actually justified that sort of favouritism.

  4. #19
    Cricket Web Staff Member archie mac's Avatar
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    I think if we didn't keep stats and you asked me without showing me the figures his average I would have said mid 40s. Was just below the three Gs for my money
    You know it makes sense.


  5. #20
    Hall of Fame Member Goughy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by archie mac View Post
    I think if we didn't keep stats and you asked me without showing me the figures his average I would have said mid 40s. Was just below the three Gs for my money
    Gatting lucky that his name begins with 'G' IMO

  6. #21
    Cricket Web Staff Member archie mac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goughy View Post
    Gatting lucky that his name begins with 'G' IMO
    Haha, I read somewhere, I am thinking Botham, that one year they bowled spin at him and he smashed them to all parts. The next year they tried speed and he smashed them to all parts. Perhaps another one who did not do himself justice at Test level. Or the county championship at the time was poor. Although with all the imports that is hard to believe.

  7. #22
    Cricketer Of The Year wpdavid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by archie mac View Post
    Haha, I read somewhere, I am thinking Botham, that one year they bowled spin at him and he smashed them to all parts. The next year they tried speed and he smashed them to all parts. Perhaps another one who did not do himself justice at Test level. Or the county championship at the time was poor. Although with all the imports that is hard to believe.
    Gatting was a good test player for 3 years or so - from the winter of 1984/85 to 1987/88 - and then his career was effectively finished by a combination of the Shakoor Rana incident and the hotel bedroom incident at the start of the 1988 WI series which led to him losing the captaincy.

    Earlier, he'd taken way too long to establish himself, but he was hardly the first. Gooch and Amiss spring immediately to mind.

  8. #23
    Hall of Fame Member grecian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wpdavid View Post
    Gatting was a good test player for 3 years or so - from the winter of 1984/85 to 1987/88 - and then his career was effectively finished by a combination of the Shakoor Rana incident and the hotel bedroom incident at the start of the 1988 WI series which led to him losing the captaincy.

    Earlier, he'd taken way too long to establish himself, but he was hardly the first. Gooch and Amiss spring immediately to mind.
    Self-discipline the problem in more ways than one. Really should have done a lot better. Always think his and Gooches career ran slightly parallel, particularly in the County Championship, but at the time Gooch started to thin down and worked on fitness improving massively, Fat Gatt went the other way.

    Also feel if he'd stayed fitter would have been a decent bowler, and remained a world-class fielder.

    Feel he doesn't get enough credit for the 86-87 win, and that tour as a whole in this country.
    Last edited by grecian; 24-04-2013 at 04:51 AM.
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  9. #24
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    Mike Gatting undid everything he achieved in 86/87 the following winter. Not by arguing with an umpire or shagging a bar maid. I'd forgive him all that, but the reverse sweep he played in the World Cup Final was beyond redemption.

  10. #25
    Cricketer Of The Year wpdavid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lillian Thomson View Post
    Mike Gatting undid everything he achieved in 86/87 the following winter. Not by arguing with an umpire or shagging a bar maid. I'd forgive him all that, but the reverse sweep he played in the World Cup Final was beyond redemption.
    Yeah, he did have an unfortunate habit of really stupid dismissals when looking well set.

    That reverse sweep at Border was possibly the single most stupid dismissal I've seen from an England player given the context at that moment of the game.

  11. #26
    Cricket Web Staff Member fredfertang's Avatar
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    The way that Gatt always used to look so bemused when he was given out lbw when padding away used to baffle me - it really did seem like he didn't understand the law

  12. #27
    Hall of Fame Member Goughy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by archie mac View Post
    Haha, I read somewhere, I am thinking Botham, that one year they bowled spin at him and he smashed them to all parts. The next year they tried speed and he smashed them to all parts. Perhaps another one who did not do himself justice at Test level. Or the county championship at the time was poor. Although with all the imports that is hard to believe.
    Yeah, the CC as a comp was stronger then than now. The irony belong England are far stronger now.

    Quote Originally Posted by grecian View Post
    Self-discipline the problem in more ways than one. Really should have done a lot better. Always think his and Gooches career ran slightly parallel, particularly in the County Championship, but at the time Gooch started to thin down and worked on fitness improving massively, Fat Gatt went the other way.

    Also feel if he'd stayed fitter would have been a decent bowler, and remained a world-class fielder.

    Feel he doesn't get enough credit for the 86-87 win, and that tour as a whole in this country.
    Yeah, there have been fewer better or braver short legs in the history of the game than Gatting
    Last edited by Goughy; 24-04-2013 at 07:59 AM.

  13. #28
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    Think Lamb is slightly over-rated, and gets a bit of a bit of a free pass due to his likeable personality.

    Gatting is one of the most over-rated cricketers in modern history IMO - very, very average and a dreadful record as captain either including or excluding the 86-87 Ashes.

    Both were persisted with for far too long, while Gower, who was genuinely world class in his peak and capable of playing test cricket well into the 90s, was omitted for non-cricketing reasons.

    The re-writing of the Gooch-Gower-Gatting-Lamb era and their exploits was pretty blind, as if England were the #1 test team in the 1980s.

    That they were hanging around in the 1990s over the likes of Hick and Ramps cannot have been good for them.

    All things being equal, Hick/Ramps >>>>> Gatting/Lamb.

  14. #29
    Cricketer Of The Year wpdavid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dazinho View Post
    Think Lamb is slightly over-rated, and gets a bit of a bit of a free pass due to his likeable personality.

    Gatting is one of the most over-rated cricketers in modern history IMO - very, very average and a dreadful record as captain either including or excluding the 86-87 Ashes.

    Both were persisted with for far too long, while Gower, who was genuinely world class in his peak and capable of playing test cricket well into the 90s, was omitted for non-cricketing reasons.

    The re-writing of the Gooch-Gower-Gatting-Lamb era and their exploits was pretty blind, as if England were the #1 test team in the 1980s.

    That they were hanging around in the 1990s over the likes of Hick and Ramps cannot have been good for them.

    All things being equal, Hick/Ramps >>>>> Gatting/Lamb.
    I thought Ramps was badly treated after his 1991 debut series against WI where, iirc, he made more runs than Hick, Atherton and Lamb between them but kept getting out after he'd made about 25. The 1992 series in NZ was an obvious opportunity for him to kick on but he didn't get a look in. Possibly kept out by Dermot Reeve ffs.

    I'm a bit more sympathetic towards Gatting's captaincy than you are. He took over a pretty shell-shocked side after the 1985/86 WI annihilation which was further hampered by Peter May's bizarre approach to selection that summer. I know they lost at home to India and NZ , but I couldn't put that down to captaincy. Given that background, I think the 1986/87 Ashes win deserves some credit, not least for reining in Botham, Gower and Lamb and getting the best out of Dilley and Small. After that, we have the twin 1-0 losses to a really good Pakistan side which could have happened to most teams, and very nearly happened to WI around then. The side was looking more professional than for ages by then, viz the draw at home to WI in his final test, which was the first time we hadn't lost to them in 11 outings. OK, I'm deliberately accentuating the positives, and I wouldn't put him up there with our finest skippers, but I thought he did a fair job. The side's performance after he was removed from the captaincy - four nil losses at home to WI and Aus - perhaps says something about how they had been better with him in charge.

  15. #30
    Hall of Fame Member grecian's Avatar
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    I don't think I over-rate either Gatting or Lamb over-all they weren't very good. Gatting had a brief period where he was very good. Gatting did play on far too long.

    Yet none of this makes them worse at Test Cricket than Hick, or laughably Ramps. Particularly not with any >>>>>

    Both of whom were poor, we were awful in both decades really.

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