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Thread: Herbert Sutcliffe - The Iron Duke of the North

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    Cricket Web Staff Member fredfertang's Avatar
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    Herbert Sutcliffe - The Iron Duke of the North

    Herbert Sutcliffe - The Iron Duke of the North

    In this feature Martin looks behind the best set of numbers of any England batsman, and finds one of the most interesting characters to have graced Test match cricket.

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    Hall of Fame Member grecian's Avatar
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    I don't normally say this, but that was bloody good reading, congrats.

    Yes, I have found it interesting that Patsy Hendren is considered so low in modern parlance, when reading about him in my youth, he seemed a god. Sutcliffe was largely ignored.

    Yet it really seems he was a great, well undervalued. Him and Hobbs have to be the greatest opening partnership ever.
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    International Vice-Captain Monk's Avatar
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    Great article Fred. Also enjoyed that you indulged your Jardine fetish in the second last paragraph!

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    Cricket Web Staff Member fredfertang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monk View Post
    Great article Fred. Also enjoyed that you indulged your Jardine fetish in the second last paragraph!


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    Wonderful article Fred. Vastly underrated player.

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    International Debutant harsh.ag's Avatar
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    Interesting read. Sutcliffe will always be in my head, as one of the great. Have always put him above Sunny, in the top 4 openers of all time. But it depends of course, in the sense that it would be a needless waste to have him and Hutton as opening partners. Better him and Hobbs or him and Barry.
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    International Debutant harsh.ag's Avatar
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    Sutcliffe's greatest strength was his ability to remain focused over such long periods. I am not in any way certain of this, but I have a feeling that if you applied Sir Don's strike rate to all of Sutcliffe's innings, he could have averaged quite close to Don. Anyone has data on this? Could be a great curator's piece.

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    Cricket Web Staff Member fredfertang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by harsh.skm View Post
    Sutcliffe's greatest strength was his ability to remain focused over such long periods. I am not in any way certain of this, but I have a feeling that if you applied Sir Don's strike rate to all of Sutcliffe's innings, he could have averaged quite close to Don. Anyone has data on this? Could be a great curator's piece.
    CricketArchive doesn't have the balls faced stats for all of their innings but I suspect there are enough to have a half decent stab at doing the calculation you're suggesting, though being arithmetically dyslexic it isn't something I'd try and do

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    International Debutant harsh.ag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fredfertang View Post
    CricketArchive doesn't have the balls faced stats for all of their innings but I suspect there are enough to have a half decent stab at doing the calculation you're suggesting, though being arithmetically dyslexic it isn't something I'd try and do
    Let me give it a shot. Let's put some of my college training to good use

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    International Vice-Captain kyear2's Avatar
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    Was definately a great batsman, but strike rate for me was just too slow for me and to me Hutton had to deal with greater challenges and better bowlers. That being said, being the 3rd/4th best opener of all time is no mean feat.
    Aus. XI
    Simpson^ | Hayden | Bradman | Chappell^ | Ponting | Border* | Gilchrist+ | Davidson3 | Warne4^ | Lillee1 | McGrath2


    W.I. XI
    Greenidge | Hunte | Richards^ | Headley* | Lara^ | Sobers5^ | Walcott+ | Marshall1 | Ambrose2 | Holding3 | Garner4

    S.A. XI
    Richards^ | Smith*^ | Amla | Pollock | Kallis5^ | Nourse | Waite+ | Procter3 | Steyn1 | Tayfield4 | Donald2

    Eng. XI
    Hobbs | Hutton*^ | Hammond^ | Compton | Barrington | Botham5^ | Knott | Trueman1 | Laker4 | Larwood2 | Barnes3

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    Englishman BoyBrumby's Avatar
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    A worthy addition to the expanding fertang oeuvre.

    That's a belter of a quote from Johnny Moyes too, isn't it?

    It has often been said that the British muddle through wars, losing all but the last battle. If that is true then Sutcliffe was typically British.
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    Hall of Fame Member grecian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBrumby View Post
    A worthy addition to the expanding fertang oeuvre.

    That's a belter of a quote from Johnny Moyes too, isn't it?

    It has often been said that the British muddle through wars, losing all but the last battle. If that is true then Sutcliffe was typically British.
    didn't work with that irritating American war, when we just couldn't win because of lack of forces, despite winning most of the battles, by being generally better.

    ho-hum.

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    A pity that he never faced Ted McDonald in tests. Facing both he and Gregory and then later O'Reilly and Grimmett would have meant that he'd have faced a slightly better set of Australian bowlers than Hutton. I think one can reasonably assume that if he did he still would have averaged more than 50 against Australia. Truly one of the greats who took his responsibilities seriously. However that doesn't mean he was limited and he could attack the bowling with rare speed if the occasion called for it.

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    Global Moderator Teja.'s Avatar
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    Excellent article as always, Fred.

    Enjoyed it a lot more than even what I usually do because Sutcliffe much like the other underrated Herbert (Taylor) has always been a favourite of mine.
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    State Regular L Trumper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by harsh.skm View Post
    Sutcliffe's greatest strength was his ability to remain focused over such long periods. I am not in any way certain of this, but I have a feeling that if you applied Sir Don's strike rate to all of Sutcliffe's innings, he could have averaged quite close to Don. Anyone has data on this? Could be a great curator's piece.
    I don't have the proof, but I remember reading, on average Sutcliffe faced more balls per loss of wicket than Don. Some thing like 150 to Don's 144.



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