"Best ever" teams selected by former players or experts- whose is best?

[NUFAN]

It's just my preference. If I pick a genuine 5 bowler attack of bowlers who average under 30 it's the 3 quicks, spinner and then Barnes/second spinner

If I pick 4 bowlers and Sobers is 5th it's 3 pace bowlers and Barnes/spinner.

I doubt Barnes was as quick as Alderman.

 

[stumpski]

David Frith:

A Stoddart (capt)
A Jackson
D Bradman
W Hammond
G Sobers
M Procter
G Evans (wk)
R Lindwall
B O'Reilly
S Barnes
B Chandrasekhar

David Frith's team is mega-unbalanced and just plain silly tbh.

It's quite clearly a team of favourite players, rather than 'the greatest.' I don't think Frith was seriously suggesting that Stoddart and Jackson were the greatest openers in the history of the game, but he did make both the subject of biographies, as well as featuring Stoddart in 'Silence of the Heart' (Jackson also died in tragic circumstances). I wouldn't say it's unbalanced; Procter was certainly good enough to bat at 6 and Lindwall made a Test 100, while Barnes also had some ability with the bat and perhaps could go in before O'Reilly. It's only the choice of two leg-spinners that doesn't look quite right.

 

[Geoffboycott]

Boycotts is the best by a country mile

 

[Victor Ian]

Can anyone point me to a thread that concludes Grace is not the greatest all rounder to play the game? Why does he not come up in conversations that normally discuss Sobers, Miller and Imran?

I'm assuming that these teams are taking the players at their best and Grace would have been worth two players, much like the Don was. I thought the best team listed above was Armstrong's.

 

[kyear2]

Can anyone point me to a thread that concludes Grace is not the greatest all rounder to play the game? Why does he not come up in conversations that normally discuss Sobers, Miller and Imran?

I'm assuming that these teams are taking the players at their best and Grace would have been worth two players, much like the Don was. I thought the best team listed above was Armstrong's.

Regarding Armstrong's, Grace may have been the greatest player ever, but not Test player and that is what most lists here are based upon. Pollock for me is a definate ATG, but rates closer to Weekes than Bradman for various reasons I wouldn't get into at this time and as great as Barnes was, I still believe that he was a fast spinner ala O'Reilly, Underwood ect and It would be him or Warne, but not both. Really think one needs three genuine pacers in a team, so that one doesn't work for me.

 

[watson]

Can anyone point me to a thread that concludes Grace is not the greatest all rounder to play the game? Why does he not come up in conversations that normally discuss Sobers, Miller and Imran?

I'm assuming that these teams are taking the players at their best and Grace would have been worth two players, much like the Don was. I thought the best team listed above was Armstrong's.

Grace is probably the greatest player of all time, but this doesn't automatically mean that he is the best player of all time. For example, Albert Einstein is a greater physicist than Richard Feynman, but Feynman would run rings around Einstein in any physics exam because Einstein would know practically nothing about Quantum Mechanics.

In the same way, Sobers would run rings around Grace because his modern batting technique would allow him to more readily succeed in a 'bowling exam' posed by Marshall and Warne (for example). I have a feeling (it's only a feeling) that Grace would be out of his technical depth against Marshall's in-swinger at 145 kph, or Warne's leg-spinner/flipper.

On the other hand, SF Barnes is a different matter and is worth his place in any ATG team. This is because a ball pitching on the leg stump at medium pace, and then breaking so it hits the off stump is a devastating delivery at any point in cricketing history. It doesn't matter whether it's bowled in 1910 or 2010, that sort of ball is going to get any batsman out should he faulter for a moment with his footwork.

 

[Red]

Can anyone point me to a thread that concludes Grace is not the greatest all rounder to play the game? Why does he not come up in conversations that normally discuss Sobers, Miller and Imran?

I'm assuming that these teams are taking the players at their best and Grace would have been worth two players, much like the Don was. I thought the best team listed above was Armstrong's.

I've never had anyone really convince me why Grace isn't incredibly overrated.

I've no doubt he was great, but I don't see any reason why he is better than his peers, and no reason why he'd possibly be considered the greatest all rounder to play the game.

 

[harsh.ag]

Indeed, it could be argued that a medium paced bowler should be included in an ATG team because some ATG batsman do poorly against such bowling. Bradman himself remarked that he much less preferred O'Reilly's fast leg-breaks, or Farnes' movement off the pitch, than he did Larwood's straight-out pace. Hayden, Gooch, and Border all had poor innings against swing bowlers.

Good point. Tendulkar too, has confessed to having the most discomfort against medium pacers like Vaas, and his bogeyman was Hansie Cronje.

Was never proven to be Bradman's actual selections as it was suspiciously released after his death.

But he did make the team and personally asked his agents not to release it until after his death.

When I said genuine pace bowlers, I include swing bowlers in that category. What I don't want is a Barnes or Sobers or Warne coming on to bowl in the 10th over of a Test match so therefore personally I won't consider the experts teams where that could be an issue.

To be fair, Barnes would probably be useless in an ATG squad if you didn't allow him to open the bowling as he liked doing. He would have a fit if you denied him

 

[kyear2]

rediff.com: cricket channel - 'Warne nearly made Bradman's XI'

I hadn't seen this before, some what of an explanation of Bradman's supposed AT XI

 

[kyear2]

Not the best quality and not the DVD version, but part 1 of a 5 past series on Benaud's selections.

Richie Benaud's Fantasy XI... Opening Batsmen - Part 1 - YouTube

As I have previously stated, he lowers the credibility of the team by not selecting Marshall, Knott or Muralitharan for even the short lists if he was serious about the exercise.

He does make it a point to note that it is his team and based on who he would want to represent him, so I guess not necessarily the best.

 

[smash84]

Not the best quality and not the DVD version, but part 1 of a 5 past series on Benaud's selections.

Richie Benaud's Fantasy XI... Opening Batsmen - Part 1 - YouTube

As I have previously stated, he destroys his own credibility by not selecting Marshall, Knott or Muralitharan for even the short lists if he was serious about choosing the best XI.

He does make it a point to note that it is his team and based on who he would want to represent him, so I guess not necessarily the best, but his favorites.

 

[The Battlers Prince]

Dickie Bird's XI - Favourite's He Saw from his (let's face it) prime position to watch cricket as well as just watching from the stands.

1. Sunil Gavaskar
2. Barry Richards
3. Viv Richards
4. Greg Chappell
5. Graeme Pollock
6. Sir Garry Sobers
7. Alan Knott
8. Imran Khan
9. Shane Warne
10. Dennis Lillee
11. Lance Gibbs

Not a bad side, I like Lance Gibbs, though I think he's the weakest of the lot. Would be a strong partner for Warne though.

Dickie Bird names his greatest all-time Test XI: in pictures - Telegraph

 

[smash84]

and Imran leads this side

 

[watson]

Interestingly, Dickie Bird's original team (picked in 1997 for a chapter in his Autobiography called 'My World Squad') is a little different;

01. Barry Richards
02. Sunil Gavaskar
03. Viv Richards
04. Greg Chappell
05. Graeme Pollock
06. Sir Garry Sobers
07. Alan Knott
08. Richard Hadlee
09. Michael Holding
10. Dennis Lillee
11. Lance Gibbs

12/13: Andy Roberts & Abdul Qadir

In Dickie's original Team Imran and Warne don't even make his reserves! Wonder what changed his mind?

Incidently, of Lillee he writes;

For me, Lillee was very special. If there has ever been a better fast bowler I would give all the tea in China to have seen him

 

[kyear2]

Would love to see a World XI from Alan Knott from players he has seen. He has seen Sobers, Pollock, Viv ect from behind the stumps and faced Lillee, Holding ect. Would be a treat to read.

 

[Furball]

Wonder what changed his mind?

...

picked in 1997

 

[kyear2]

A perspective on the Cricinfo XI

A CRICKETING VIEW: On All Time XIs: Geniuses, Classicists and Lefties

 

[The Battlers Prince]

A good article, I love that he played Lara at 3 and Richards at 4.
I love that he segregated Miller and Bradman too. It would be a close match between the two sides if every player played at the peak of their careers who would win?

 

[harsh.ag]

I find the Procter love to be even more inexplicable than the Barry Richards love. There is a genuine shortage of great attacking openers with a great technique in the game's history (Greenidge, Trumper and Hayden being the best choices) (Sehwag doesn't count; I have doubts over how attacking Hobbs was; and Morris seems too inconsistent). But there is hardly a dearth of great pace-bowling all-rounders - Hadlee, Imran, Miller, Kapil, Davidson, Wasim, Pollock, Botham, and even Lindwall to a certain extent.

Here is a blog post on all-rounders: For the Love of Legends: Best All Rounders of All Time

 

[TheJediBrah]

Interestingly, Dickie Bird's original team (picked in 1997 for a chapter in his Autobiography called 'My World Squad') is a little different;

I wouldn't say it's interesting. Most of Warne's feats occurred after 1997 so not surprising that Warne wasn't in his 1997 team.