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Thread: Best before the Don

  1. #1
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    Best before the Don

    It's 1927 and you're sat in a.........place where the people of 1927 would gather.........and decide to select a Test XI from the first 50 years of Test Cricket.

    Much to ponder. Should the first three Tests even count as the sides weren't fully representative and the participants didn't even know they were playing a Test Match?
    Can you include WG based on his modest Test record?
    Did SF Barnes chuck?
    Do you get an abacus out and adjust some players stats to account for the War?
    Could you justify having Clarrie Grimmett in the side based on his so far short Test career?
    Since underarm and round arm bowling have recently died out do you have to make allowances for how much easier the current batsman have it?
    .......and so on...........

  2. #2
    International Captain watson's Avatar
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    I think that certain pre-1927 players 'pick themselves', and I don't belief that there would be a lot of difference between 21st century hindsight, and 1920s zeitgeist.

    Anyway, to get the ball rolling here is list of ad hoc guesses with no claim to accuracy;

    01. Jack Hobbs
    02. Herbert Sutcliffe
    03. Charlie Macartney
    04. Victor Trumper
    05. WG Grace
    06. Monty Noble
    07. Jack Gregory
    08. Bert Oldfield
    09. Ted McDonald
    10. Sydney Barnes
    11. Arthur Mailey

    The only point I will make is that I'm not sure whether Sutcliffe's and Oldfield's reputations were well founded by 1927 or not.
    Last edited by watson; 01-04-2013 at 07:43 AM.
    Len Hutton - Jack Hobbs - Ted Dexter - Peter May - Walter Hammond - Frank Woolley - Ian Botham - Alan Knott - Hedley Verity - John Snow - Fred Trueman

    Victor Trumper - Bill Lawry - Don Bradman - Greg Chappell - Allan Border - Keith Miller - Adam Gilchrist - Alan Davidson - Shane Warne - Dennis Lillee - Glenn McGrath

  3. #3
    International Regular harsh.ag's Avatar
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    The best test batsman before the Don (btD) - Hobbs

    The best batsman btD - Grace

    The best test cricketer btD - Faulkner and Macartney

    The best cricketer btD - Grace

    Best team btD.. much more difficult, to be honest. I guess:

    Hobbs
    Grace
    Trumper
    Hill
    Ranjitsinghji
    Macartney
    Rhodes
    Gregory
    Blackham (w)
    Barnes
    Lohmann
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  4. #4
    International Regular harsh.ag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by watson View Post
    I think that certain pre-1927 players 'pick themselves', and I don't think that there would be a lot of difference between 21st century hindsight, and 1920s zeitgeist.

    Anyway, to get the ball rolling here is list of ad hoc guesses with no claim to accuracy;

    01. Jack Hobbs
    02. Herbert Sutcliffe
    03. Charlie Macartney
    04. Victor Trumper
    05. WG Grace
    06. Monty Noble
    07. Jack Gregory
    08. Bert Oldfield
    09. Ted McDonald
    10. Sydney Barnes
    11. Arthur Mailey

    The only point I will make is that I'm not sure whether Sutcliffe's and Oldfield's reputations were well founded by 1927 or not.
    Great team. I put Lohmann over McDonald. Not sure which is better. And Rhodes ahead of Mailey surely?

    I wasn't sure about Sutcliffe either, so didn't select him. I would have Blackham over Oldfield though.


  5. #5
    Cricketer Of The Year The Sean's Avatar
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    Great idea LT.

    I think you have to pick Grace, despite his Test record not being particularly startling - and IMO Hobbs was unquestionably the greatest Test batsman before Bradman. Trumper could therefore play in the middle order but it's harsh on Sutcliffe to leave him out. Off the top of my head I think my team would look something like:

    Grace
    Hobbs
    Taylor
    Trumper
    Ranji
    Faulkner
    Noble
    Blackham
    Lohmann
    Spofforth
    Barnes

    On another day Woolley would come in for Ranji, Hill for Taylor, and I might find a place for Macartney, Rhodes, Tate, Trumble, Turner or Richardson. Or someone else really obvious who I've overlooked.
    Last edited by The Sean; 01-04-2013 at 12:45 PM.
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  6. #6
    International Captain watson's Avatar
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    I think that the 1921 series would still weigh very heavily in the mind of 1927 cricket lovers. Therefore, I'm not sure that Ted McDonald can be brushed off so easily. He was also very successful in English county cricket.

    Also, Hobbs would want Mailey in the team since he states in his autobiography that Mailey is best leg-spinner he faced. And the 1920s public would probably know his opinion.
    Last edited by watson; 01-04-2013 at 07:52 AM.

  7. #7
    Global Moderator Teja.'s Avatar
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    There is no doubt Herbie Taylor should be one of the front-runners for the top order, if the ability to score runs regularly against tough bowling is a sufficiently important criterion

    However, there's no way the MCC coaching manual snobs would deem him fit to play in such a side in 1927.

    Meh, It's better if he's in the second XI anyway, his talents would be best used facing Barnes from the first XI.
    Last edited by Teja.; 01-04-2013 at 10:02 AM.
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  8. #8
    State Regular L Trumper's Avatar
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    Disturbing lack of Arthur Shrewsbury

  9. #9
    International Regular harsh.ag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by L Trumper View Post
    Disturbing lack of Arthur Shrewsbury
    Sorta agree but who do you drop out of Hobbs, Grace, Trumper, Hill and Ranji (Plus Herbie Taylor in the back)?

  10. #10
    The artist formerly known as Monk Red Hill's Avatar
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    - Grace
    - Hobbs
    - Ranji
    - Trumper
    - McCartney
    - Woolley
    - Noble *
    - Blackham +
    - Lohmann
    - Spofforth
    - Barnes

  11. #11
    Cricket Web Staff Member fredfertang's Avatar
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    Stanley Jackson worthy of a mention, though wouldn't like to leave anyone out of Monk's team - Noble perhaps?

  12. #12
    State Vice-Captain Coronis's Avatar
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    Can't see Faulkner not getting a run here. You get a very good leg spinner, and a guy with a 40+ test batting average. Not too shabby for the time frame we're looking at.

  13. #13
    The artist formerly known as Monk Red Hill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fredfertang View Post
    Stanley Jackson worthy of a mention, though wouldn't like to leave anyone out of Monk's team - Noble perhaps?
    tbh I don't know much about Jackson.

    Got any thoughts on CTB Turner Fred?

  14. #14
    Cricket Web Staff Member archie mac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fredfertang View Post
    Stanley Jackson worthy of a mention, though wouldn't like to leave anyone out of Monk's team - Noble perhaps?
    Walk up start imo
    You know it makes sense.



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