and that kids, is how to begin a posting career
I don't really get this thread. Some of the egs given (Shackleton, Barnes, Asif) are medium fast bowlers not what I would have guessed medium pace spin. I'd maybe call Kumble and Underwood medium pace spin but they are both fairly recent examples which suggests the art hasn't died off. I see Appleyard was mentioned and he is an example I would consider medium pace spin. Cricinfo's profile has him down as an off spinner who bowled close to medium.
Appleyard was a handful on wet pitches apparently but he did well here as one of the supports for Tyson. You wouldn't think selectors to be clueless enough to pick a wet wicket bowler for Australian conditions. So I don't think the subsequent covering of pitches has anything to do with their rarity. Between wars Australian FC cricket had a few like Oxenham, Hurwood and McNamee. The pitches were generally true and the matches protracted. So contrary to perceptions it seems the medium pace spinner was good value on pitches that favoured attritional cricket. Maybe we don't see so many now bcos the art is hard to master and the pitches aren't as good as the ones prepared for timeless matches as once prevailed in Australia.
Last edited by the big bambino; 20-11-2013 at 06:15 PM.
Its something which is really difficult but worth trying.
Kohli is a fine example of a top class medium pace spinner imo.
World XI Since 1990 -
1. Gooch 2. Dravid 3. Ponting 4. Tendulkar 5. Lara 6. Kallis 7. Gilchrist 8. Akram 9. Warne 10. Ambrose 11. McGrath
Did anyone mention Tony Greig ?
For one, you need to have international cricket in Pakistan. I do not see that happening until the Yanks leave this area.
On the cricket front, they need to focus on this issue strategically. If I had a say,I would ignore World T20 and the One-Day World Cup and instead identify key series to win.
In Pakistan's case, the next key series is the home series against Australia (3 tests in the UAE). Going by Pakistan's history, ODI success is the consequence of solid test performances and not vice versa. If I am able to forge a team that can win that series, it would automatically mean some aggressive team selection on the way - World T20 will be handled like that. A series win against Australia would set the team up ideally for the One-Day World Cup.
Pakistanis cannot win against Australia through spinners only. Regardless of how they bowled against England, they need to remember that post 1990 Australian teams have only generally handled Pakistani spinners well enough. So if I manage to produce a team that is able to win that series, it would mean unearthing some good fast bowlers as well.
None of this going to happen by the way. Once Dav Whatmore, a thoroughly decent coach who fell prey to the Pakistani hounding, leaves, the replacement will first burp over his predecessors failures, blame him for his own failures that follow and would still be doing it by the time he finds himself in the middle of the Australian series. There you'll find Siddle, Starc and Johnson teasing Pakistani batsmen while they fall to the far less dangerous off-spin of Nathan Lyon.
Pakistanis just love doing it: Any obscure spinner from a country not famous for producing spinners can have a field day against Pakistanis.
We have precedents:
Ray Bright (Australia) - 1980
Nick Cook (England) - 1984
Carl Hooper (West Indies) - 1993
Stuart McGill (Australia) - 1998 (in only his second test in a game where Pakistanis played three spinners)
Ashley Giles (England) - 2000
Paul Harris (South Africa) - 2007
As for the future of Pakistani test cricket, wait for a few more barren years before you see a revival inspired by some good fast bowlers. It won't be like the West Indies, where fast bowlers disappeared after 2000. But it won't be very pretty until then.
And I agree - Hafeez should not have been included ten years ago when he couldn't score 3 runs an over and was brutalised in the ODI series against the South Africans in 2003 when he failed to reach 10.
The current batting lineup is much more comparable to the 80s Australian sides than those sides though.they need to remember that post 1990 Australian teams have only generally handled Pakistani spinners well enough
Rejecting 'analysis by checklist' and 'skill absolutism' since Dec '09
Rejecting 'selection deontology' since Mar '15
Moeen is a perfectly fine bowler FFS
One of the rare pictures of Warnaweera in bowling stride. Resembles a fat bowler more than a spinner. But boy, he did give it a rip.
Member of the Sanga fan club. (Ugh! it took me so long to become a real fan of his)
Or were you referring to the politics, in which case there is off-topic.
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