View Poll Results: Greatest Bolwer of All

Voters
84. You may not vote on this poll
  • George Lohman

    0 0%
  • Syd Barnes

    5 5.95%
  • Bill O'Reilly

    0 0%
  • Harold Larwood

    3 3.57%
  • Hedley Verity

    0 0%
  • Ray Lindwall

    0 0%
  • Fred Trueman

    1 1.19%
  • John Snow

    0 0%
  • Dennis Lillee

    5 5.95%
  • Imran Khan

    2 2.38%
  • Richard Hadlee

    5 5.95%
  • Michael Holding

    0 0%
  • Malcolm Marshall

    24 28.57%
  • Wasim Akran

    3 3.57%
  • Curtly Ambrose

    3 3.57%
  • Shane Warne

    5 5.95%
  • Muttiah Muralitharan

    15 17.86%
  • Glenn Mcgrath

    8 9.52%
  • Dale Steyn

    4 4.76%
  • Other

    1 1.19%
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Thread: Greatest Bowler

  1. #151
    State Vice-Captain akilana's Avatar
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    Hey harsh, friendly request. Pls no need of personal attack. You bringing up Mcgill's record did enough.

  2. #152
    International Coach Ikki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by benchmark00 View Post
    I have no idea why you lump leg spin and off spin together.
    If a pitch is conducive to bowling spin, it does so on both sides of the pitch.
    ★★★★★

  3. #153
    State Captain harsh.ag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by akilana View Post
    Hey harsh, friendly request. Pls no need of personal attack. You bringing up Mcgill's record did enough.
    I had no intention mate. He started it.
    If you were that old, and that kind, and the very last of your kind, you couldn't just stand back and watch children cry.

  4. #154
    Request Your Custom Title Now! benchmark00's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ikki View Post
    If a pitch is conducive to bowling spin, it does so on both sides of the pitch.
    Do you genuinely think that if conditions are good for leg spin they're good for off spin?
    Parmi | #1 draft pick | Jake King is **** | Big Bash League tipping champion of the universe
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    Kohli. Do something in test cricket for once please.

    Thanks.


  5. #155
    International Coach Ikki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by benchmark00 View Post
    Do you genuinely think that if conditions are good for leg spin they're good for off spin?
    Yes, insofar as we've talked about. What part of the 'conditions' do you think makes it so different so as to make the distinction?

    Quote Originally Posted by harsh.skm View Post
    I had no intention mate. He started it.
    And where did I begin being personal with you? If you contest a point, be prepared to be called on it when it is neither relevant nor is factually correct.

  6. #156
    State Captain harsh.ag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ikki View Post
    Yes, insofar as we've talked about. What part of the 'conditions' do you think makes it so different so as to make the distinction?



    And where did I begin being personal with you? If you contest a point, be prepared to be called on it when it is neither relevant nor is factually correct.
    " If you're going to make an argument, please don't be ridiculous and make arguments like the above."

  7. #157
    Request Your Custom Title Now! benchmark00's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ikki View Post
    Yes, insofar as we've talked about. What part of the 'conditions' do you think makes it so different so as to make the distinction?
    Well if you think that, you're wrong.

    In Australia, the nature of the pitches means there is more bounce than other countries. If you impart a bit of side spin as a leg spinner, you will also get very favourable bounce which makes you a big danger.

    As an off spinner, you don't necessarily want extravagant bounce in to the right hander as it makes it difficult to attack the stumps and get LBW and bowelds. And it makes it easier to hit with the arc because you can get under the ball with more ease.

    In India, for example, it is harder to bowl leg spin because you won't get that bounce with the side spin. Kumble bowled with over spin so he was successful there, however his over spin meant he wasn't successful in Australia because he didn't have the spin and bounce that he would otherwise get.

    In the sub continent off spinners can attack the stumps easily because the bounce is variable and not high, as well as gripping, so if you attack the stumps for long enough you will get rewards.

    Now you can choose to listen and take the above on board and acknowledge that was a part of your cricket knowledge that you were missing, or you can bring in to play some stats that you have picked out and ignore it. Your call.
    Last edited by benchmark00; 30-03-2013 at 03:51 AM.

  8. #158
    International Coach Ikki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by harsh.skm View Post
    " If you're going to make an argument, please don't be ridiculous and make arguments like the above."
    How is that a personal post? I am saying you've made a ridiculous argument. It may be harsh, but it isn't personal, nor did I mean for you to take it as such.

    Generally, from what I've read from you in other threads you seem way more reasonable but it comes across here that no matter what is replied to you, you're ignoring it and digressing so you seem to have a visage of a point.

  9. #159
    State Captain harsh.ag's Avatar
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  10. #160
    State Captain harsh.ag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ikki View Post
    How is that a personal post? I am saying you've made a ridiculous argument. It may be harsh, but it isn't personal, nor did I mean for you to take it as such.

    Generally, from what I've read from you in other threads you seem way more reasonable but it comes across here that no matter what is replied to you, you're ignoring it and digressing so you seem to have a visage of a point.
    Actually you may be right. Not a good day. Accept my apologies.

    This is not to concede your point though

  11. #161
    International Coach Ikki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by benchmark00 View Post
    Well if you think that, you're wrong.

    In Australia, the nature of the pitches means there is more bounce than other countries. If you impart a bit of side spin as a leg spinner, you will also get very favourable bounce which makes you a big danger.

    As an off spinner, you don't necessarily want extravagant bounce in to the right hander as it makes it difficult to attack the stumps and get LBW and bowelds. And it makes it easier to hit with the arc because you can get under the ball with more ease.
    This is just an orthodox understanding of how you may want to bowl spin. You mention the off-spinner wanting to avoid bounce but this isn't true, always. In fact, in an interview Murali specifically mentions that Warne helped him by introducing more bounce in his repertoire and as such was equally concerned with how much bounce he got as well as spin. When queried how during the latter half of his career he became a better bowler he talked about using drift more. In that sense, if you can use your drift well bounce is no bad thing. Moreover, it is not like Murali pitched the ball wide all the time and hence wouldn't have wanted bounce because it meant he couldn't get LBWs or bowelds.

    In India, for example, it is harder to bowl leg spin because you won't get that bounce with the side spin. Kumble bowled with over spin so he was successful there, however his over spin meant he wasn't successful in Australia because he didn't have the spin and bounce that he would otherwise get.

    In the sub continent off spinners can attack the stumps easily because the bounce is variable and not high, as well as gripping, so if you attack the stumps for long enough you will get rewards.

    Now you can choose to listen and take the above on board and acknowledge that was a part of your cricket knowledge that you were missing, or you can bring in to play some stats that you have picked out and ignore it. Your call.
    But that doesn't matter. Warne could not only spin the ball a mile he could also use bounce. So could Murali. It wasn't a one or the other consideration for them. Whenever Warne bowled in SL he looked even more imperious than usual - he could use overspin as well as pitch to extract more spin.

    The reason someone like Kumble was less successful in Aus was because of his lack of sideways movement more than considerations re bounce. Bounce is important for a spinner, but it is a secondary consideration to spin. Especially when you're not as gifted as someone like Warne or Murali.
    Last edited by Ikki; 30-03-2013 at 04:09 AM.

  12. #162
    Request Your Custom Title Now! benchmark00's Avatar
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    Ok, I see you have decided not to take it on board. Good for you. Have a good day.

  13. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plumbinfront View Post
    Wow! Some debate going on here it must be said. A few points : 1) I see the bloke who refused to make allowances for Tendulkar being injured against McGrath in a couple of matches is now using the same line of defence for Warne. Hmmm, hey, we all have our biases. Not a biggie. 2) The argument used for Pak bowlers by Ikki is nonsense. Pak bowlers weren't born swing bowlers, they had to ADAPT because of the nature of the pitches. Similarly, Warne too made adjustments for his home pitches (bounce, etc) and learnt to bowl on them in a manner that produced optimal results for him. Shouldn't get extra credit there because both Warne and Murali had exceptional away records so that shouldn't be a factor. 3) Murali's away average is skewed by one bad place (ATG side, harsh conditions, small sample) just like Ponting's overall away average is skewed by one very poor record (India). 4) Murali faced a stronger Indian line up and he was clearly past his peak in that last series. Moreover, India prepared flat decks against Sri Lanka more often than they did against Aus because they didn't want to give Murali a sniff. You can check the number of high scoring draws in India-SL tests in India during this period if you want. 5) Warne is a better bowler by a hair's width IMO but the arguments presented here are farcical. 6) The best bowler of all time is Glenn McGrath. No one has a record as complete. Marshall has a crap record in one place IIRC.
    this ....... apart from the last series when he was well past his best and was taken apart ; murali was more of a threat in India than warne was, actually looked far more of a threat .....even though the pitches for Ind-SL tests were on an average quite clearly flatter than those in the Ind-Aus tests ....
    Last edited by abmk; 30-03-2013 at 04:29 AM.

  14. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by benchmark00 View Post
    Ok, I see you have decided not to take it on board. Good for you. Have a good day.
    can you like rebut his second post or something, i genuinely want to know more on this topic.

  15. #165
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    Sort of amazed at the poll really. If a decn has already been made on Warne and Marshall shouldn't it be a race in two?

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