Who is the Best "Cricketer" Ever?

[Agent Nationaux]

There is footage of Lindwall (plenty) and Larwood (a bit). There is also plenty of anecdotal evidence about them. I think they're comparable to modern players, if that's what people want to do.

The game has changed so much that it's silly to compare.

 

[Red]

The game has changed so much that it's silly to compare.

I don't think the game has changed significantly since Larwood's era. What do you think is different?

 

[Ikki]

And how are people going to compare Imran with guys like Larwood and Lindwall? By stats Imran was the better bowler, but they played nearly 100 years ago so no ones seen them. Can't even compare and therefore our lists should not include them.

Depends...especially with Lindwall. His stats looked into comparison of his era (SRs in his era were far higher) show he definitely has a comparable record. Haven't looked at Larwood in detail.

Larwood, Lindwall, Lillee basically had the same style AFAIK and they were very much similar to the modern bowler. Lindwall also played rugby league professionally (at a very high level) so he was probably a better overall athlete than Imran was.

 

[smash84]

I agree, but others have a different criteria for rating players, in which he suddenly becomes a serious contender to the throne.
.

Which is what I am asking all along. So what exactly is that criteria that they are using which causes them to make a "fair case" to not have Imran in the top 15 fast bowlers of all time.

 

[Agent Nationaux]

I don't think the game has changed significantly since Larwood's era. What do you think is different?

Pitches were harder to bat on, no subcontinent, not as many International games.

 

[Prince EWS]

Haha, definitely the first time I've heard Lindwall's rugby league career actually used as evidence for him being a better cricketer than someone. That's a new one.

 

[Agent Nationaux]

Depends...especially with Lindwall. His stats looked into comparison of his era (SRs in his era were far higher) show he definitely has a comparable record. Haven't looked at Larwood in detail.

Larwood, Lindwall, Lillee basically had the same style AFAIK and they were very much similar to the modern bowler. Lindwall also played rugby league professionally (at a very high level) so he was probably a better overall athlete than Imran was.

A highly subjective claim.

 

[smash84]

Depends...especially with Lindwall. His stats looked into comparison of his era (SRs in his era were far higher) show he definitely has a comparable record. Haven't looked at Larwood in detail.

Larwood, Lindwall, Lillee basically had the same style AFAIK and they were very much similar to the modern bowler. Lindwall also played rugby league professionally (at a very high level) so he was probably a better overall athlete than Imran was.

Just looked up Lindwall. He is impressive.

Larwood not quite from what I can gather

Harold Larwood | Cricket Players and Officials | ESPN Cricinfo

 

[Red]

Pitches were harder to bat on, no subcontinent, not as many International games.

Don't think any of these things exclude a bowler from being rated.

In 100 years, when America and China have become the dominant forces in world cricket, will people be saying "yeh, but McGrath and Marshall never had to play the USA and China"?

 

[smash84]

Haha, definitely the first time I've heard Lindwall's rugby league career actually used as evidence for him being a better cricketer than someone. That's a new one.

tbf he mentioned a better athlete and not cricketer

 

[Prince EWS]

Don't think any of these things exclude a bowler from being rated.

In 100 years, when America and China have become the dominant forces in world cricket, will people be saying "yeh, but McGrath and Marshall never had to play the USA and China"?

Yeah, the game will have changed too much by then, and the CWers of tomorrow won't have any 3D footage of McGrath or Marshall either. Impossible to compare them with Xiu Cho.

 

[Plumbinfront]

Why are people so touchy? My God, I thought the Tendulkar and Warne fans were the most touchy, but it looks like the Imran fans are as bad, if not worse.

For the last time, I have not once said that there are 15 bowlers definitely better than Imran Khan, nor have I said that Waqar is definitely better than Imran. There is no bowling Bradman (maybe Barnes or Lohmann are debatable but I don't know much about them. More knowledgeable posters could comment on that). That being the case, there are a number of bowlers who are very close together in terms of quality and how you rate them is purely arbitrary and subjective. Ambrose might be 1 on someone's list and 10 on another. The bowlers that Coronis mentioned and Davidson are all pretty close for mine. Hence if someone wanted they could have Imran at 15.I have him in my top 10 and I repeat I think he is better than Waqar, but jeez if you think Waqar is not even comparable to Imran or something I can't help you.

 

[Satyanash89]

Imran in the top 10 and unlike what Smali posted, no doubt about it at all. Ridiculous that people think 15 better bowlers than him.

No, it's not. I personally would have Imran in the top 5, but its similar to the Best After Don debate... there are plenty of candidates... Marshall, McGrath, Hadlee, Lillee, Waqar, Donald, Ambrose, Garner, Holding, Trueman, Lindwall, Steyn, Wasim, Larwood are all test bowlers who can be considered as good as Imran on the bowling front. It's just the fact that you yourself put Imran near the very top, and also because Imran is a pretty popular vote, so guys like Garner, Donald, Trueman don't really crop up too often in such discussions... It creates a perception that they were far inferior, when they really weren't

 

[Red]

Yeah, the game will have changed too much by then, and the CWers of tomorrow won't have any 3D footage of McGrath or Marshall either. Impossible to compare them with Xiu Cho.

Xiu Cho (2106-2119)
8ft 7 inches.
Hyper fast bowler. specialises on neon teflon pitches.
Bowling average- 2.3
Strike rate- 7.2

ATG.

 

[Plumbinfront]

Just so posters understand....I have Kallis as the best batsman I have seen since the Richards era (yes maybe I am biased). Someone else might come up and say, hey, Tendulkar, Lara, Waugh, Ponting, Dravid are better and Kallis is only 6th. That would be fine because you could make a case for any of them and it's not clear cut.

 

[Satyanash89]

For the last time, I have not once said that there are 15 bowlers definitely better than Imran Khan, nor have I said that Waqar is definitely better than Imran. There is no bowling Bradman (maybe Barnes or Lohmann are debatable but I don't know much about them. More knowledgeable posters could comment on that). That being the case, there are a number of bowlers who are very close together in terms of quality and how you rate them is purely arbitrary and subjective. Ambrose might be 1 on someone's list and 10 on another. The bowlers that Coronis mentioned and Davidson are all pretty close for mine. Hence if someone wanted they could have Imran at 15.I have him in my top 10 and I repeat I think he is better than Waqar, but jeez if you think Waqar is not even comparable to Imran or something I can't help you.

Yeah, agreed with this...exactly what I've been trying to point out for a while now...
And Davidson... wow, I can't believe I forgot him... someone said before he always gets forgotten, and it really is true.

 

[smash84]

Just so posters understand....I have Kallis as the best batsman I have seen since the Richards era (yes maybe I am biased). Someone else might come up and say, hey, Tendulkar, Lara, Waugh, Ponting, Dravid are better and Kallis is only 6th. That would be fine because you could make a case for any of them and it's not clear cut.

Yes but if someone were to contend with you that Kallis is not even a top 30 batsman of all time then what would you suggest?

 

[Plumbinfront]

I would say whatever you would say if someone said Imran wasn't in the top 30. Once again you miss the point though, I did not make a definitive statement that Imran is not in the top 15 fast bowlers as you are alluding to. If someone did say Kallis isn't in the top 30 bats I'd find it weird. I am sure there are 15 batsmen you could make a case for though.

 

[Satyanash89]

Yes but if someone were to contend with you that Kallis is not even a top 30 batsman of all time then what would you suggest?

Haha way to go... Where did you pull that 30 out of?
But if someone told me that Tendulkar/Sobers/Lara/kallis are not in the top 15 of all time, I'd get angry and respond approproately sure, but I'd understand because there are plenty of other worthy candidates...
I don't know why this is so hard to understand FFS... I'm out

 

[Agent Nationaux]

Yeah, the game will have changed too much by then, and the CWers of tomorrow won't have any 3D footage of McGrath or Marshall either. Impossible to compare them with Xiu Cho.

Xiu Cho will be half human, quarter bot and quarter alien, so won't be able to compare.