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Who is the Best "Cricketer" Ever?
- Thread starter centurymaker
- Start date
hadlee did. if you were going to focus on wickets per match you'd probably be picking lillee, hadlee, steyn and murali as your bowlers
watson
Banned
That's because there is very little difference in the skill level between the Top Tier fast bowlers. Therefore, people's opinion can differ, and is bound to differ.
After all, no one is going to get into a debate about whether Roger Binny deserves to be called 'the best'.
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Coronis
Cricketer Of The Year
Not a bad bowling lineup at all. Obviously, you have to take into account other factors. i.e Hadlee and Murali's wpm are very high as they were very clearly the best bowlers in their team, wheras others, e.g Marshall, McGrath had other great bowlers in their sides. Steyn has had Pollock, Kallis, Ntini, Morkel and Philander through his career, though Pollock possibly not at his peak, and Philander hasn't been around that long. Still a very impressive effort.
Interestingly, and slightly off topic, but when Grimmett and O'Reilly bowled together, Grimmett, bowled more overs, took more wickets, had a better economy rate, and a half a ball worse strike rate. All at a lower average than O'Reilly. Also took more 5 fors, and twice the amount of 10 fors that O'Reilly did in that period.
watson
Banned
Against ENGLAND (the only real opposition)
O'Reilly: Matches = 22 Wickets = 106 Ave = 25.36 SR = 77.0
Grimmett: Matches = 19 Wickets = 102 Ave = 32.94 SR = 86.4
IMO Grimmett's bowling is moderately over-rated.
Coronis
Cricketer Of The Year
SA weren't as pathetic as some make them out to be. I know O'Reilly has a better record than Grimmett against England, but I think this is partly due to Grimmett being poor earlier in his career (in the 20's) and then being denied the opportunity to play more matches against England later in his career, after being dropped when he was at the height of his form. Also, what explanation is there for Grimmett performing far better than O'Reilly vs South Africa?
smash84
The Tiger King
Donald, McGrath, and Ambrose think Wasim is the best
Ikki
Hall of Fame Member
Most of the WIndies team thought so too.
As for dead decks...wasn't Lillee renown for his use of cutters on dead decks?
kyear2
Cricketer Of The Year
Yup Grimmett didn't perform as well againts the only strong team he faced, and though he gave Headley trouble in the beginning of the series, Headley had more or less figured him out by the conclusion.
Red
The normal awards that everyone else has
I know Border rates Wasim really highly.Donald, McGrath, and Ambrose think Wasim is the best
Satyanash89
Banned
That's the reason why I don't think peer opinion should be given to much consideration when judging players... especially those you've actually watched play.Donald, McGrath, and Ambrose think Wasim is the best
The other bowlers of the era obviously rated Wasim that highly because they didn't have his raw ability of making the ball do whatever the **** he wanted, because let's face it nobody apart from Wasim had his talent. I think that's why they all held him in awe, and were probably a bit jealous too
Whether that actually translated into better results and performances is another story, and in my opinion, McGrath, Ambrose and Donald are a significant distance ahead of Akram in the ATG stakes.
harsh.ag
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Nobody is a significant distance ahead of Wasim as a bowler. Put him in a world xi, with a peaceful side and a good captain, see what he can do. Plus one thing is for sure, with Wasim there, no opposition tail is going to add frustrating runs to the total. Not saying he is the best ever.That's the reason why I don't think peer opinion should be given to much consideration when judging players... especially those you've actually watched play.
The other bowlers of the era obviously rated Wasim that highly because they didn't have his raw ability of making the ball do whatever the **** he wanted, because let's face it nobody apart from Wasim had his talent. I think that's why they all held him in awe, and were probably a bit jealous too
Whether that actually translated into better results and performances is another story, and in my opinion, McGrath, Ambrose and Donald are a significant distance ahead of Akram in the ATG stakes.
watson
Banned
I'm looking at the list of batsman that Wasim Akram dismissed, and I must admit that there are an aweful lot of bowlers and tail-enders in his top 25.
Srikkanth, Azharuddin, Ranatunga, and Slater are the top-order batsman of note that he dismissed most often. Wasim dismissed Brian Lara twice, and Tendulkar only once.
I'm rather underwhelmed;
HowSTAT! Player Bowling Analysis
Srikkanth, Azharuddin, Ranatunga, and Slater are the top-order batsman of note that he dismissed most often. Wasim dismissed Brian Lara twice, and Tendulkar only once.
I'm rather underwhelmed;
HowSTAT! Player Bowling Analysis
Lillian Thomson
Hall of Fame Member
You shouldn't completely dismiss the value of being able to knock over the tail. I would surmise (without statsmongering) that he was often given that task and did it successfully, which would go some way to explain the high number tail end dismissals.
watson
Banned
Yes, fair enough comment. I just assumed that if he was opening the bowling with Imran/Waqar, then he might 'own' a few more openers/top order batsman. James Anderson seems to be making a meal of Sachin in recent years, and McGrath ate Athers for breakfast.
H4G
Banned
Thats because both Imran & Hadlee had modelled their bowling on that of Lillee.
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
It does suggest that he was less effective against actual batsmen than other great bowlers though. If you're given the opportunity to bowl at the tail regularly then your average will be lower than someone who does similarly well against the top order but bowls at the tail less regularly. Wasim doesn't have a lower average to go with his increased tailend wickets percentage.
There's no doubt he was a great bowler. I think he falls a little short when compared to most other great bowlers though.
H4G
Banned
You are forgetting that for whole of Wasim's career Pakistan had 2-3 alltime great bowlers + atleast 2 very good bowlers which resulted in more wicket sharing & less chance to take wickets & thats why Wasim has only 4 wickets per match.IMO Wasim has to be one of the best ever if not the best.