Who is the Best "Cricketer" Ever?

[kyear2]

It will take a while, and the numbers were taken from 2007 and another site.

If you are interested you can take the lead with Imran

Cricket Ratings

 

[akilana]

Hadlee WAG

 

[H4G]

Considering the opponents he faced, the amount of wickets he took per test, and the amount of excellent batsmen he dismissed, there's no doubt in my mind Lillee's the best. May be only marginal, but it's enough imo.

There are many people who would say McGrath is better than Lillee. Lillee was very successful on bowling friendly wickets of Australia & England but failed miserably on Asian wickets and avoided touring asian countries a few times on account of fake injuries & "business committments".

 

[H4G]

Lillee is no doubt one of the best ever but only on Australian & English wickets with help for fast bowlers

 

[fredfertang]

There are many people who would say McGrath is better than Lillee. Lillee was very successful on bowling friendly wickets of Australia & England but failed miserably on Asian wickets and avoided touring asian countries a few times on account of fake injuries & "business committments".

Australia didn't tour the sub-continent too often during his career did they? And never when he was at his best - when do you say he ducked out?

 

[H4G]

Australia didn't tour the sub-continent too often during his career did they? And never when he was at his best - when do you say he ducked out?

Australia did tour Asia 5 or 6 times during his career I think but he went there only twice(once Pakistan & other time Sri Lanka) & was really pathetic as he averages 68 in Asia with S/R of 132 & I remember during same time he was almost unplayable in Austrlia & England.

 

[fredfertang]

Australia did tour Asia 5 or 6 times during his career I think but he went there only twice(once Pakistan & other time Sri Lanka) & was really pathetic as he averages 68 in Asia with S/R of 132 & I remember during same time he was almost unplayable in Austrlia & England.

I'm not convinced - he made his Test debut at 21 in 1970/71

1979/80 was the only tour to India during his career. There was a tour to Pakistan the same year. He missed both of those but they are the only two I can see - His one disappointing trip to Pakistan was 82/83, by which time he was a fair way past his best, so it's a bit of a sweeping statement to say he failed on the sub-continent, as he was never there at his peak - as to whether he bottled it in 79/80 I don't know, but will consult the history books and see what they say

 

[H4G]

I'm not convinced - he made his Test debut at 21 in 1970/71

1979/80 was the only tour to India during his career. There was a tour to Pakistan the same year. He missed both of those but they are the only two I can see - His one disappointing trip to Pakistan was 82/83, by which time he was a fair way past his best, so it's a bit of a sweeping statement to say he failed on the sub-continent, as he was never there at his peak - as to whether he bottled it in 79/80 I don't know, but will consult the history books and see what they say

Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

He wa s clearly not past his best because he was giving same superb performances during that time everywhere else but failed miserably in Asia.Other than that Lillee was great but not a complete fast bowler because he was not good against left handers & didn't have a good yorker but yet he is simply the best ever on bowling friendly wickets especially those of Australia & England.

 

[fredfertang]

It seems in 79/80 he wasn't in India or Pakistan because he was still contracted to WSC and it was just before peace broke out - so could you clarify what you mean by "fake" injuries and business commitments?

 

[Red]

I think that the statement: 'Lillee's the best bowler to ever bowl in England or Australia' is more true than just 'Lillee's the best'.

Nah, I don't care for ranking players based on where they didn't play.

 

[kyear2]

It's not based on ranking them where they didn't play but rewarding Mcgrath, Marshall ect for where they did play and succeed.

 

[kyear2]

It seems in 79/80 he wasn't in India or Pakistan because he was still contracted to WSC and it was just before peace broke out - so could you clarify what you mean by "fake" injuries and business commitments?

Just ignore.

 

[fredfertang]

One thing I do like about H4G's perspective is that it clearly elevates the mighty Sylvers to the status of an ATG - so he does have a point

 

[watson]

That is a valid point. My argument is that Marshall and Mcgrath has better numbers, dismissed just as many great batsmen but did it all over the world, especially the sub continent and what Marshall and Holding did in India in '83 on the flattest imaginable pitches vs a very strong batting line up is what puts Marshall at the top for me.

Additionally

D.Lillee - highest rating: 884 V Eng 1977. spent 10 of his 70 Tests (14.3%) rated above 850. Best batting rating: 252.
R.Lindwall - highest rating: 897 V Eng 1954. spent 22 of his 61 Tests (36.1%) rated above 850. Best batting rating: 433.
M.Marshall - highest rating: 910 V Eng 1988. spent 48 of his 81 Tests (59.3%) rated above 850. Best batting rating: 375.
C.Ambrose - highest rating: 912 V Eng 1994. spent 45 of his 98 Tests (45.9%) rated above 850. Best batting rating: 229.
W.Akram - highest rating: 830 V Aus 1994. spent 0 of his 104 Tests (0.0%) rated above 850. Best batting rating: 473.
G.McGrath - highest rating: 914 V Eng 2001. spent 83 of his 124 Tests (66.9%) rated above 850. Best batting rating: 123.
A.Davidson - highest rating: 908 V WI 1961. spent 18 of his 44 Tests (40.9%) rated above 850. Best batting rating: 526.
R.Hadlee - highest rating: 909 V Aus 1985. spent 41 of his 86 Tests (47.7%) rated above 850. Best batting rating: 562.

Marshall and Mcgrath were more consistent.

I don't think that these ranking take WSC Super Tests into account. Therefore, any bowler (or batsman) who did well between 1977 and 1979 while playing for Kerry Packer will be disadvantaged. Lillee did well during the Super Tests - 14 Tests, 67 Wickets at 26.87 (Strike Rate = 53.35)

World Series Cricket Australia XI - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also, while it is true that Lillee rarely played in Asia, I think that it is fair to say that he would have returned excellent figures if given a reasonable chance.

It is the same 'logical assumption' as believing that Mike Proctor or Barry Richards would have had successfull careers if give a reasonable chance. Lillee, Proctor and Richards are all so talented and brilliant that we can't really assume otherwise because 'creme always rises to the top'.

 

[Plumbinfront]

Lillee is certainly a great of the game. H4G is posting nonsense here about him. I'd agree with the points Kyear and Watson are making though. My top 10 best bowlers list would be (from those I have seen only):
1.McGrath
2.Marshall
3.Steyn
4.Ambrose
5.Hadlee
6.Donald
7.Imran
8.Garner
9.Waqar
10.Wasim

 

[Lillian Thomson]

There should be a "Sticky" on this forum with the most frequently perpetuated myths.

Lillee pulling out of tours of the sub-continent would be top of the list. He never pulled out of a tour there through injury so to suggest it was fake is completely brainless, yet it comes around regularly.

 

[Agent Nationaux]

Imran, Holding and Hadlee considered Lillee to be the best they ever saw.

 

[Coronis]

My top 5 fast bowlers:
Marshall
McGrath
Ambrose
Lillee
Hadlee

 

[Agent Nationaux]

My Top 5

1. Waqar
2. McGrath
3. Wasim
4. Ambrose
5. Donald

 

[watson]

Imran, Holding and Hadlee considered Lillee to be the best they ever saw.

As did Dickie Bird, Richie Benaud, and Ian Botham.

I also have a feeling that Viv Richards thought him to be the best, but I'm not sure and will have to go off and check.