View Poll Results: Who is the best "Cricketer" ever

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  • Keith Miller

    1 1.33%
  • Imran Khan

    7 9.33%
  • Gary Sobers

    16 21.33%
  • Jacques Kallis

    15 20.00%
  • Don Bradman

    28 37.33%
  • WG Grace

    5 6.67%
  • Other

    3 4.00%
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Thread: Who is the Best "Cricketer" Ever?

  1. #256
    H4G
    H4G is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monk View Post
    Hahahahahahaha

    Bahahahaha.

    You're funny.
    Yeah sure I am because I don't use spectacles/optical lenses of "BIAS" brand.

  2. #257
    Cricket Web Staff Member fredfertang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by H4G View Post
    Yeah sure I am because I don't use spectacles/optical lenses of "BIAS" brand.

    .... although you do seem to have an irrational bias against Garry Sobers

  3. #258
    Eyes not spreadsheets marc71178's Avatar
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    It's a general irrationality I think to be honest along with a tendency to spout what is commonly known as bollocks.
    marc71178 - President and founding member of AAAS - we don't only appreciate when he does well, but also when he's not quite so good!

    Anyone want to join the Society?

    Beware the evils of Kit-Kats - they're immoral apparently.

  4. #259
    International Debutant Viscount Tom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by H4G View Post
    TBH Sobers has to be thrice as worst as 2nd worst bowler ever because he could bowl all 3 styles crap.
    And your evidence for this that doesn't come from your missing chromosome is?
    AT-XI
    #J.Hobbs; #L.Hutton; #D.Bradman; #V.Richards; #G.Sobers; #A.Border; #A.Gilchrist; #K.Miller; #I.Khan; #S.Warne; #M.Marshall;


  5. #260
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    Isn't this just Precam or a troll of that ilk posting bollox. The rubbishing of Sobers bowling, the hero worshipping of Imran and exaggerated elevation of Viv Richards is feeding off the things that get mentioned (and ridiculed) quite often in genuine discussions.

  6. #261
    International Vice-Captain Monk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by H4G View Post
    Yeah sure I am because I don't use spectacles/optical lenses of "BIAS" brand.
    I don't think anyone here has argued Imran wasn't a fairly good batsman. And he improved significantly as his career went on. Fairly common knowledge.

    However, regardless of his isolated average over that 10 yr period, if someone said to me "you're selecting a team, and you can have one of these guys AS A BATSMAN ONLY- Imran, Botham, Kapil or Miller", I'd choose Imran last every time.

    Imran was fairly limited as a batsman. Solid technique, but not very dynamic.

  7. #262
    Cricketer Of The Year Agent Nationaux's Avatar
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    Imran is overrated for his batting. However he certainly is a hero to me and millions of people around the world, so don't know why that is a problem.
    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBrumby View Post
    Yeah, look, it gives me a pain deep inside my uterus to admit it, but it's Ajmal until such time as we get a working throwing law again.
    Never in a million years would I have thought Brumby to admit this!!!!!!

  8. #263
    International Vice-Captain Monk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Nationaux View Post
    Imran is overrated for his batting. However he certainly is a hero to me and millions of people around the world, so don't know why that is a problem.
    I think most people rate him pretty well as a batsman, but he did have limitations.

    Fwiw I almost always select him in an ATG team. To have someone like Gilchrist at #7, and then Imran at #8 is ideal.

  9. #264
    International Coach Ikki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monk View Post
    His initial selection for the WIs was as a bowler.
    I don't understand how this matters. Sobers' bowling was crap in the beginning, crap at the end, and bar a relatively small spell in his career as a bowler he was mediocre, at best, overall. It takes someone being highly selective to pick out 6-7 years of his peak (where he still was no more than a very good bowler) and ignore the other 13-14 years of plain garbage.
    Last edited by Ikki; 18-04-2013 at 05:48 PM.
    ★★★★★

  10. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by H4G View Post
    Yeah sure I am because I don't use spectacles/optical lenses of "BIAS" brand.
    Yeah, no. You're the one here who's really biased. Nobody here is saying that Garry Sobers is the best bowler of all time, however, he is most certainly not the worst, far from it. You just seem to have an irrational hatred of him, possibly because you think Imran is the best AR of all time. Imran's batting has always been overrated, due to that 10 year period people keep bringing up, and they use his average as proof that he was a great batsman. Average doesn't tell the whole story. Imran, whilst a decent batsman, was not that great, his average is very misleading. The reason he averages so much better than them is because he has a far higher proportion of not outs. For example, Miller, who played 30 less test matches than Imran, scored more centuries than him. Botham only played 15 more tests than him and still scored more than double his amount of centuries. The only one he really comes close to his Kapil, but, purely on batting, I'd rather have Kapil. He is not clearly better than any other bowling all rounder, except Hadlee.
    ATG World XI
    1. J.B Hobbs 2. H. Sutcliffe 3. D.G Bradman 4. W.R Hammond 5. G.S Sobers 6. M.J Procter 7. A.C Gilchrist 8. M.D Marshall 9. S.K Warne 10. M. Muralitharan 11. G.D McGrath

  11. #266
    International Vice-Captain kyear2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ikki View Post
    I don't understand how this matters. Sobers' bowling was crap in the beginning, crap at the end, and bar a relatively small spell in his career as a bowler he was mediocre, at best, overall. It takes someone being highly selective to pick out 6-7 years of his peak (where he still was no more than a very good bowler) and ignore the other 13-14 years of plain garbage.
    No All Rounder is great at both diciplines, the closest one would come is Botham and he declined rapidly after his intial brilliance. Miller as a batsman wasn't much better than Sobers as a bowler , and wouldn't come close to an AT XI as a batsman either. Almost half of his test hundreds came in one series vs a thread bare attack on the flattest of decks in the Caribbean in '55 and he for his career he averaged 24 in England.
    Additionally to not being not much better as a batsman if bettter at all than Sobers was as a bowler he was somewhat behind as a bowler compared to Sobers as a batsman.

    This is just to say that one would never find someone brilliant at everything and it's about finding the best balance and for most people that is Sobers and it better to have a less than stellar 5th bowler that a substandard #5 batsman.

    btw Keith Miller himself not only said that Sobers was the best All Rounder that played the game but the best cricketer period.
    Aus. XI
    Simpson^ | Hayden | Bradman | Chappell^ | Ponting | Border* | Gilchrist+ | Davidson3 | Warne4^ | Lillee1 | McGrath2


    W.I. XI
    Greenidge | Hunte | Richards^ | Headley* | Lara^ | Sobers5^ | Walcott+ | Marshall1 | Ambrose2 | Holding3 | Garner4

    S.A. XI
    Richards^ | Smith*^ | Amla | Pollock | Kallis5^ | Nourse | Waite+ | Procter3 | Steyn1 | Tayfield4 | Donald2

    Eng. XI
    Hobbs | Hutton*^ | Hammond^ | Compton | Barrington | Botham5^ | Knott | Trueman1 | Laker4 | Larwood2 | Barnes3

  12. #267
    International Vice-Captain Monk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ikki View Post
    I don't understand how this matters. Sobers' bowling was crap in the beginning, crap at the end, and bar a relatively small spell in his career as a bowler he was mediocre, at best, overall. It takes someone being highly selective to pick out 6-7 years of his peak (where he still was no more than a very good bowler) and ignore the other 13-14 years of plain garbage.
    Sobers' bowling wasn't crap. His stats are very similar to someone like Alf Valentine's, and other guys like Bishen Bedi etc.. No one is saying he was a truly great bowler, but as a 5th bowling option he is exceptional

    I'm not sure where this opinion that Sobers' bowling was "crap" comes from.

  13. #268
    International Vice-Captain kyear2's Avatar
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    Smali and Ikki.

  14. #269
    International Vice-Captain watson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyear2 View Post
    No All Rounder is great at both diciplines, the closest one would come is Botham and he declined rapidly after his intial brilliance. Miller as a batsman wasn't much better than Sobers as a bowler , and wouldn't come close to an AT XI as a batsman either. Almost half of his test hundreds came in one series vs a thread bare attack on the flattest of decks in the Caribbean in '55 and he for his career he averaged 24 in England.
    Additionally to not being not much better as a batsman if bettter at all than Sobers was as a bowler he was somewhat behind as a bowler compared to Sobers as a batsman.

    This is just to say that one would never find someone brilliant at everything and it's about finding the best balance and for most people that is Sobers and it better to have a less than stellar 5th bowler that a substandard #5 batsman.

    btw Keith Miller himself not only said that Sobers was the best All Rounder that played the game but the best cricketer period.
    Fair point re Miller's batsmanship. Just had a look at Miller's highest/best innings and I must admit that I'm not overly impressed by them. There are certainly no great batting feats that match the ones scored by Botham, or even Kapil and Imran.

    Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

  15. #270
    Cricket Web Staff Member fredfertang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ikki View Post
    I don't understand how this matters. Sobers' bowling was crap in the beginning, crap at the end, and bar a relatively small spell in his career as a bowler he was mediocre, at best, overall. It takes someone being highly selective to pick out 6-7 years of his peak (where he still was no more than a very good bowler) and ignore the other 13-14 years of plain garbage.
    You have a perfectly valid point Ikki, not for the first time, but you don't help yourself in terms of putting it forward by dressing it up in such polemic language

    Sobers plainly had some poor series as a bowler, 1957 in England in a series when the West Indian bowling generally was wholly undistinguished being a very good example, and he had some distinctly ordinary series elsewhere as well, but as I have already pointed out in England in particular, that first series apart, he was a highly effective and thoroughly decent bowler and he usually did a job - no Lillee or Imran I grant you, but well worth his place - tbh as a fellow lawyer I am always surprised that you don't choose your words more carefully.

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